XBox One Backwards Compatibility and Xbox One X Enhancements for X360 and OG (XO XOX BC)

Allandor said:
This is known. Only discs sold in North america are supported right now (my german mass effect had no Problem), also some classic disc (like my Kameo disc, too) do not work. This is known and will be supported in future releases (just like DLCs)
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Ah, ok. It installed my UK ME1 too.
 
goonergaz said:
Thinking about it, essentially MS switched "CoD DLC first" for BC...interesting choice
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Only if you believe in Zero Sum budgeting. Both decisions were arrived at independently and for wildly different reasons. After all how good for MS would it be to be able to announce "Now with b/c you can keep playing with your friends on 360 while still enjoying all CoD content first on Xbox!"
 
Allandor said:
The problem I see isn't that the jaguar hadn't enough power, but the single-thread performance isn't that much better, than optimized code for an in order architecture, that almost has twice the frequency. This is quite an achievement, even if the PowerPC architecture wasn't the strongest. You had 3.2 GHz for just one thread. I assume that this could be a problem in some titels that are highly optimized for the PowerPC architecture. But well, if the cpu has less to do with GPU drawcalls (don't know how bad the situation is on xbox360 but I heard it wasn't that good), so if they manged to reduce the time on that, they should have enough cpu-time. But still, the commands have to be translated into x86er commands.

There are also the timings that has been reduced. The xbox 360 had GDDR3 ram which had quite long wait times for the cpu. Also the embedded sram should be much faster (latencies) than the old embedded dram. So this can also buy some time for the command translation. Also there is more memory available, which should help with some caching-reoutines, too.




But still, this is quite an astonishing accomplishment to get that emulator working in that short time (phil said they began discussion one year ago).
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I read some rumours of it like 8 months ago and also some rumours of a new controller for the most demanding gamers, also some months ago. Those were true, wherever they came from. Also @3dilettante mentioned time ago some of the challenges of emulating an in-order PowerPC CPU on a out-of-order x86 one, and others have the theory that Xbox One BC is powered by black magic.

http://www.lazygamer.net/xbox-one/xbox-one-backwards-compatibility-powered-by-black-magic/
 
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For those like me who want Hexic HD, the fun free game that came with the Xbox 360 on day one, and you haven't it associated with their gamertag because you didn't have a gamertag then -or whatever reason-, there is a way to have Hexic HD appearing on your Xbox One BC list. You only have to xbox.com and search for Hexic HD and they "buy" it -X360 version. The game is completely free, and it will appear in the Xbox One as backwards compatible.

http://www.purexbox.com/news/2015/06/to_play_hexic_on_xbox_one_youll_need_to_do_this
 
Mass Effect performance is disappointing, vsync is nice and it looks like some of cut scenes are running better on the x1 (because of the GPU, memory speed?) while gameplay suffers (CPU?), still sub 20FPS quite often is not great, my PC from 2009 can run the game easily at 60FPS on the spots the X1 emulator is under 20FPS, looks to much of a compromise to be playing the game like this in 2015, if you have even a basic PC or the Xbox 360, hopefully they can improve the emulator... maybe the "remaster" approach is really the only good way for the current gen to play old gen games.
 
HMBR said:
Mass Effect performance is disappointing, vsync is nice and it looks like some of cut scenes are running better on the x1 (because of the GPU, memory speed?) while gameplay suffers (CPU?), still sub 20FPS quite often is not great, my PC from 2009 can run the game easily at 60FPS on the spots the X1 emulator is under 20FPS, looks to much of a compromise to be playing the game like this in 2015, if you have even a basic PC or the Xbox 360, hopefully they can improve the emulator... maybe the "remaster" approach is really the only good way for the current gen to play old gen games.
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Well, taking into account the original Mass Effect actually ran at 15-20 fps on the X360 with spikes of 30 fps, it's not that bad. :) Hopefully they are going to polish it over time.
 
Even if not, it's not unreasonable to expect some titles not to translate well. The cleverest software using the most tricks to exploit XB360 hardware to its fullest (if any were written that way) are going to be more problematic to emulate.
 
It's a beta of a hugely ambitious piece of software, possibly with some debugging routines enables so they can get feedback on how well this work.

I expect performance to increase over time, but even if it doesn't this is still incredibly impressive.

Interestingly, it seems like the virtual 360 might constantly be outputting to the X1 at 720p, then being upscaled to 1080p, even on native 1080p 360 games....
 
Is there a possibility MS can recompile Xenon (CPU) oriented task to the XB1 GPU within the emulation environment? Depending more so on the XB1 GPU doing more of the heavy lifting, rather than the Jaguar CPU.

Or does GPU compute require a reworking of the original XB360 game code(s) to work more effectively... something that will be more time consuming and costly.
 
i am very impressed by this. never thought they would get a power pc emulation/recompilation really working. tried mass effect, the banjos, perfect dark, super meat boy and viva pinata and encountered no problems. only the loading times where sometimes better, very cool feature.
 
Digital Foundry said:
Microsoft's insistence that Xbox 360 developers stick to the DirectX 9 console API played a role in this - it would surely have helped to create a clear route in mapping GPU instructions from one generation of processor to the next (though it begs the question of what's going to happen with later games, that used some highly inventive DX9 code to get closer to the metal).
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They fail to note that XBOX 360 was DX9+ with one of the primary differences being Tessellation capabilities on Xenos that didn't make it into DX until DX11 (with a whole bunch of shader stages wrapped around it). Ironically Viva Pinata is one of the few known titles to use XBOX 360 tessellation and its also one that's already been ported.
 
I guess the point is by using DirectX instead of going straight to the metal, mapping a new GPU is a lot easier. even if it's not DX9 or 10 but DX360, MS need only implement the same API on XB1.

I do hope we learn how the CPU is solved. Is it really just a case that the XB360 CPU was so underused that a 1.6 GHz jaguar core has room to spare to both transcode and execute the PC instructions? Is transcoding trivial and something that maybe a dedicated core could be doing?
 
Shifty Geezer said:
I do hope we learn how the CPU is solved. Is it really just a case that the XB360 CPU was so underused that a 1.6 GHz jaguar core has room to spare to both transcode and execute the PC instructions? Is transcoding trivial and something that maybe a dedicated core could be doing?
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Would OOOE help :?:

Or even cache size?o_O (1MB for 3/6, 2MB for 4
1 APU for All and All for One
)
 
I wouldn't have thought OOOE would be any benefit as the code will be written in order, and you don't get more efficient than code written in-order. I suppose if code wasn't amazingly optimised, OOOE would be an advantage. How much optimisation was possible?
 
My understanding is that OoOE makes everything run better. Even the most highly optimised serial code will run faster. You can't optimise highly enough to negate all benefits of the CPU being able to re-orer its workloads on the fly.

IPC on the 360 CPU was something like 0.2 when assessed using real games. On a Jaguar core it should be closer to something like 1.

Thinking about the benefits of higher BW and much larger, lower latency cores, the emulator may actually fare better in newer games that use lots of threads.
 
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