Xbox Live confirmed for Windows 8

[pjbliverpool]

It's at a lower margin than Windows users though and it's a far less captured market. An xbox gamer this year can easily be a Sony or Nintendo gamer next year. Or perhaps they'll even switch to mobile gaming.

A lost Windows user though is pretty much a lost Windows user. Without doubt the WIndows user population is vastly more valuable to MS than the Xbox user population so swapping a Windows user for an Xbox user is a very bad move.

I would say just watch what happens over the next few years but it's already happening. Look at MS's marketshare in the desktop/laptop space decline. It's been happening for a few years now. Meanwhile they've been ignoring their most loyal userbase for around the same period. Go figure.

I'm not saying every lost Windows user was a PC gamer but the Halo effect is significant. Just look at the hype around Crysis 2 of BF3 for proof of that. PC nerds may be a small subset of society but they have a big influence on the much larger group that comes to them for computer purchasing advice - or that just pay some level of attention to their inevitable complaints or praises for particular brands/solutions. For every one of them you lose, you lose the influence they may have had over 10 joe six packs.

 

[AlphaWolf]

You guys crack me up. MS needs to monetize gaming on the PC if they are going to push it.

 

[AzBat]

Looks like XNA won't be supported on Win 8(I assume the Metro part)...

Just confirmed w/ Jon Lam. No XNA on Win 8. Wow... Stunned.

https://twitter.com/#!/chrisgwilliams/status/114065959026819073

Guess Win8 Metro game developers better get used to C++, .NET & HTML5.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

Microsoft's Shawn Hargreaves posted on the XNA forums...

It is correct that XNA is not supported for developing the new style Metro applications in Windows 8.

But XNA remains fully supported and recommended for developing on Xbox and Windows Phone, not to mention for creating classic Windows applications (which run on XP, Vista, Win7, and also Win8 in classic mode).

can we expect metro integration in XNA 5? 6?

Afraid that runs into the standard "we don't comment on unannounced future plans in forum posts". Sorry!

Based on what was announced at //build this week, it's really all down to what platform you are targeting. If you want to develop games for Win8 tablets, we recommend C++ and D3D11 (or XAML or HTML5 for more casual stuff). Whereas if you want to develop for Xbox or Windows Phone, XNA is where it's at...

Man, what mixed signals that sends. Sounds like XNA is dead to me.

Tommy McClain

 

[MfA]

XNA isn't so much dead, they have decided they don't even want XNA games available on the PC anymore ... it's alive and well on the XBOX, it's deprecated on the PC. Increased separation, rather than increased integration ... at least as far as gaming is concerned.

They only want you to play social/flash type games on the PC.

 

[AzBat]

Actually they only want social/flash type of games on the Metro side, anything still goes on the Desktop side. I just find it funny they took the Metro GUI from Windows Phone 7 to the PC but none of the interoperability of the XNA & Silverlight platform. Apple got it right with iOS, Microsoft is fucking up here. Don't get me wrong I like the idea of two OS's on Windows 8. But they should have made it such that developers could write one app for both Windows Phone & Windows 8 Metro.

Tommy McClain

 

[MfA]

Actually they only want social/flash type of games on the Metro side, anything still goes on the Desktop side.

Sure it goes, Microsoft is just telling you YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG every step of the way.

Microsoft is fucking up here.

Don't attribute to stupidity what can be attributed to inter-division Microsoft infighting ...

 

[pjbliverpool]

Well that pretty much proves MS are actively trying to kill everything above casual level gaming on the PC. Unless I'm proven wrong, Apple and Sony just got a new customer.

 

[Ike Turner]

Besides not supporting XNA for Metro style games development how are they exactly killing PC Gaming ? Here's their recommendation for developing Windows 8 Metro games:

Graphics
DirectX gaming power underlies Windows 8, so you have several options when creating Metro style game apps. You can write full-screen, chrome-free games with smooth, flicker-free action using HTML5, JavaScript, and CSS3. Or, write impressive 2D and lightweight 3D games using XAML with managed C# or Visual Basic. You can also use the full processing abilities of modern graphics hardware using native C++ and HLSL with DirectX 11.1.

Create immersive games using the power of DirectX
The new Windows 8 graphics stack is better integrated, making Direct2D, Direct3D, and DirectCompute components easier to use together and requiring fewer duplicated resources than before. Capabilities previously available only in XNA, such as DirectXMath, XAudio2, and XInput, are now available. For the ultimate experience in gaming and video, use DirectX 11.1 to bring stereoscopic 3D to your apps.

 

[TheD]

You guys crack me up. MS needs to monetize gaming on the PC if they are going to push it.

How? By ripping us off if we want to play online (they tried it before, they might try it again) and shoving ads all over the place????

 

[AlphaWolf]

Or launching their own digital sales platform, but those other things are coming with or without MS.

From the looks of this it's a value add for mobile and xbox live rather than pushing windows gaming. The upside for MS and PC gaming just isn't there compared to the other platforms.

 

[hoho]

Or launching their own digital sales platform

They already have it.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Besides not supporting XNA for Metro style games development how are they exactly killing PC Gaming ? Here's their recommendation for developing Windows 8 Metro games:

How is not supporting XNA on the Windows implementation of Xbox Live, thus preventing all those games from being playable on the PC doing anything other than hobbling PC gaming in favour of the xbox? It's the same thing they've been doing for years with their first party games.

Even that development recommendation you posted puts DX11 at the back of the list behind the more basic casual gaming development options.

Hopefully I'm wrong but MS have done nothing in a good 10 years now to show any real commitment towards PC gaming. In fact the opposite has been consistently demonstrated.

 

[mrcorbo]

How is not supporting XNA on the Windows implementation of Xbox Live, thus preventing all those games from being playable on the PC doing anything other than hobbling PC gaming in favour of the xbox?

Where did they say this?

 

[pjbliverpool]

It's not supported in Windows 8 full stop according to the link above so I assume that includes XB Live for Windows too.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Hopefully I'm wrong but MS have done nothing in a good 10 years now to show any real commitment towards PC gaming. In fact the opposite has been consistently demonstrated.

What about DirectX?

 

[Ike Turner]

It's not supported in Windows 8 full stop according to the link above so I assume that includes XB Live for Windows too.

Uh? It not supported as a Framework to develop Metro Style apps and that is all. XNA apps/Games are fully functional in Windows 8. Pin the XNA app's tile to the start screen and the average Joe won't see a difference.

 

[pjbliverpool]

So all the games that have been developed for the 360 using xna could still be compatible with windows 8? If so then I take it back. I still remain unconvinced though that this a demonstration of commitment to pc gaming from microsoft.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Compatible with Win 8, but not XB Live. (?) Or not XB Live on Metro? (??)

 

[Ike Turner]

So all the games that have been developed for the 360 using xna could still be compatible with windows 8? If so then I take it back. I still remain unconvinced though that this a demonstration of commitment to pc gaming from microsoft.

As of right now I don't know of any XNA Xbox 360 game that can be purchased and ran on a Windows 7/Vista PC (I could be wrong though so feel free to correct me) and this , AFAIK, won't change with Windows 8.
To put it simply Windows 8 will treat XNA apps (developed for PC..once again I'mnot aware of XBLA XNA games compatible/playable on the Windows..) the same way Windows 7 treats them . The only new thing here is that the XNA framework won't be supported to develop Metro-Style apps.

Let's for example imagine that I develope an XNA gamesfor the X360 and and PC (= two different packages). I will be able to sell on XBLA arcade on the X360 and in the Windows 8 Store because Metro apps and regular "desktop" apps can coexist in it (and Win8 will treat XNA apps as regular desktop apps). The only "major" downside in all of this is that XNA apps won't be able to take advatge of the new cool WinRT stuff and all the cloud/share/print apis etc... stuff that make a Metro app.

The conclusion here is that Microsoft is apparently ditching XNA in favor of WinRT and all the new apis associated with it.