Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion

[Cyan]

It's smart. I applaud the messaging strategy.

We all know this isn't the end, but I'm not spending the rest of this gen speculating on whether or not the following games are eventually going to PS:

Starfield
Hellblade 2
MS Flight Sim
Avowed
Indiana Jones
Fable
Perfect Dark
Clockwork Revolution
South of Midnight
Towerborne
Outerworlds 2
Contraband
State of Decay 3
Gears 6
Doom Zero
Halo Next
Forza Horizon 6

I'll be playing them Day 1 on GamePass instead.

your list is a perfect explanation as to why exclusive titles don't work per se in order to sell hardware, but a combination of factors (i.e. Nintendo appealing to families, making great perfectly crafted games for all people, covering mobility needs while being able to play on the big screen, etc).

If we count exclusive games, I'd bet Sony and Nintendo TOGETHER can't make a list like Microsoft does.

I could be add many more titles to your list, and yet here we are, the Xbox isn't selling.

Diablo 5
WoW
Starcraft
Age of Empires 1, 2, 3, 4
Banjo & Kazooie
Overwatch 3
Quake 5
The Elder Scrolls 6
Pillars of Eternity 3
Fallout 5
Killer Instinct 2
Rise of Nation 2
Wolfenstein future
Phantom Dust 2

and so on and so forth

 

[Charlietus]

your list is a perfect explanation as to why exclusive titles don't work per se in order to sell hardware, but a combination of factors (i.e. Nintendo appealing to families, making great perfectly crafted games for all people, covering mobility needs while being able to play on the big screen, etc).

If we count exclusive games, I'd bet Sony and Nintendo TOGETHER can't make a list like Microsoft does.

I could be add many more titles to your list, and yet here we are, the Xbox isn't selling.

Diablo 5
WoW
Starcraft
Age of Empires 1, 2, 3, 4
Banjo & Kazooie
Overwatch 3
Quake 5
The Elder Scrolls 6
Pillars of Eternity 3
Fallout 5
Killer Instinct 2
Rise of Nation 2
Wolfenstein future
Phantom Dust 2

and so on and so forth

I remember seeing somewhere a comparison of the number of employees between Sony and Microsoft, and it was something like 19k(Xbox) vs 4k(playstation).

They have almost 5 times the amount of employees of the direct competitor.
The problem isn't the number of exclusives, it's something else, and with the number of Xbox sold it's not sustainable to ignore playstation and Nintendo.

They also didn't need to acquire so many studios in the first place, the operating costs must be insane. If Sony has a 6% margin, than Microsoft has...?

 

[Shortbread]

"Microsoft is framing this move as just four games that the company can learn from, testing the waters if you will."

But they already have cross-platform titles - Minecraft Dungeons, Psychonauts, Ori, Cuphead, et al. What water are they testing exactly?

It's simply corporate theater on softening the impact of news towards the obvious direction that they are headed, which is a full third-party gaming company that also provides hardware.

 

[BRiT]

"Microsoft is framing this move as just four games that the company can learn from, testing the waters if you will."

But they already have cross-platform titles - Minecraft Dungeons, Psychonauts, Ori, Cuphead, et al. What water are they testing exactly?

It's the last part of the statement that is key, they are keeping an eye on how platform stability and devaluation follows from some ports --

"In the case of Starfield, porting it currently could lead to too much devaluation of our console line right now. In the future this could change but care must be taken to ensure stability."

The four games that are likely coming are the following, and here's the likely reasons why:

• HiFi-Rush - has a transmedia effort underway (tv series) and would like to extend the potential market for it
• Grounded - has a transmedia effort underway (tv series) and would like to extend the potential market for it
• Sea of Thieves - GaaS that wants to keep user engagement and revenue high by expanding the playerbase
• Pentiment - Josh has wanted his gem of a little game everywhere

 

[Seanspeed]

It's simply corporate theater on softening the impact of news towards the obvious direction that they are headed, which is a full third-party gaming company that also provides hardware.

But what's the point of investing all the resources into hardware when they're trying to push this idea of being able to play anywhere else instead? Why would I not just get a Playstation that can play all these Microsoft games *and* Playstation 1st party games? What is the selling point going to be, exactly?

 

[iroboto]

But what's the point of investing all the resources into hardware when they're trying to push this idea of being able to play anywhere else instead? Why would I not just get a Playstation that can play all these Microsoft games *and* Playstation 1st party games? What is the selling point going to be, exactly?

MS would have to provide you a different value proposition on the hardware to make it worth your while.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

MS would have to provide you a different value proposition on the hardware to make it worth your while.

Indeed. Why pick one car over another when they all get you to the same place? I guess the here is XB games coming to PS but not PS games coming to XB, so that PS wouldn't become the only console with every game. A car with exclusives access to some beauty spots would have a potent USP alongside drive-ability, economy, cost and reliability factors.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

IMO, this is the same decision making process that led to them releasing all titles day and date on PC. Process being the key word here.

Keep in mind, this doesn't necessarily mean that the result of that decision making process will be the same as happened with PC title releases. Unlike PC which mostly attracts a different consumer demographic than consoles, consoles are actually competing for the same pool of consumers. In other words, releasing day and date on PC had little to no impact on Xbox console sales (hardware or software) while releasing day and date on PS5 (as an example) would definitely impact Xbox console sales.

IMO, unless sales of Xbox hardware take a dive, I don't actually see it replicating their moves WRT title releases on PC. The more likely scenario (again assuming Xbox hardware sales remain relevant for MS) is that we'll have day and date releases of multiplayer titles that require a large community to really thrive (IE - make money). Single player titles will likely be either timed exclusives or full exclusives (to give consumers a reason to buy an Xbox). IMO, I'm leaning towards all their single player titles eventually becoming timed exclusives (1-2 year timed exclusivity).

Regardless, as they did when they started to consider increased release frequency on PC, they'll approach this relatively slowly and see the impact each step of the way.

While it's easy to point to Minecraft as a title they could learn from or acquired titles from recent studio acquisitions, that's a different kettle of fish from moving existing or new Xbox IP multiplatform WRT it's potential effect on console hardware sales. Hence, why unlike Minecraft or other existing established multiplatform gaming IPs that they've acquired, I believe it's likely that new and existing single player Xbox gaming IPs will instead be timed exclusives in the future rather than day and date releases.

However, there's one interesting twist in this whole thing. I think Halo could become both a day and date multi-console release (the multiplayer part) and a timed exclusive release (the single player campaign DLCs).

Regards,
SB

 

[Shortbread]

But what's the point of investing all the resources into hardware when they're trying to push this idea of being able to play anywhere else instead? Why would I not just get a Playstation that can play all these Microsoft games *and* Playstation 1st party games? What is the selling point going to be, exactly?

Something relating to power narrative, user experience and gaming ecosystem, XB games play best on XB hardware, and a certain period of game exclusivity. It may not be greatly different from their current narrative, but it's still a valid narrative to run with.

Microsoft just needs better frontmen and PR on selling the XB brand as a whole, and not simply to the internet XB brotherhood.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Something relating to power narrative, user experience and gaming ecosystem, XB games play best on XB hardware, and a certain period of game exclusivity. It may not be greatly different from their current narrative, but it's still a valid narrative to run with.

Microsoft just needs better frontmen and PR on selling the XB brand as a whole, and not simply to the internet XB brotherhood.

To think of this another way. If there eventually is day and date releases of Xbox studio games on PS5, it's like saying...

Why would someone buy a CyberPowerPC gaming rig instead of an Alienware gaming rig or any other seller of gaming PCs? I mean they all play the same games.

The obvious comeback and current reasoning is the captive storefronts on each console makes it different from the PC gaming landscape.

But what happens if the EU and potentially other territories start to require that a console hardware manufacturer allow 3rd party storefronts on their hardware? At that point there'd be nothing stopping MS from putting a storefront on PlayStation or Sony putting up a storefront on Xbox.

Or Steam/Epic/GOG/etc. putting up a storefront on all consoles.

At that point you just go with the hardware that you are brand loyal to and/or the hardware that you feel is the most capable.

Regards,
SB

 

[Cyan]

IMO, this is the same decision making process that led to them releasing all titles day and date on PC. Process being the key word here.

Keep in mind, this doesn't necessarily mean that the result of that decision making process will be the same as happened with PC title releases. Unlike PC which mostly attracts a different consumer demographic than consoles, consoles are actually competing for the same pool of consumers. In other words, releasing day and date on PC had little to no impact on Xbox console sales (hardware or software) while releasing day and date on PS5 (as an example) would definitely impact Xbox console sales.

IMO, unless sales of Xbox hardware take a dive, I don't actually see it replicating their moves WRT title releases on PC. The more likely scenario (again assuming Xbox hardware sales remain relevant for MS) is that we'll have day and date releases of multiplayer titles that require a large community to really thrive (IE - make money). Single player titles will likely be either timed exclusives or full exclusives (to give consumers a reason to buy an Xbox). IMO, I'm leaning towards all their single player titles eventually becoming timed exclusives (1-2 year timed exclusivity).

Regardless, as they did when they started to consider increased release frequency on PC, they'll approach this relatively slowly and see the impact each step of the way.

While it's easy to point to Minecraft as a title they could learn from or acquired titles from recent studio acquisitions, that's a different kettle of fish from moving existing or new Xbox IP multiplatform WRT it's potential effect on console hardware sales. Hence, why unlike Minecraft or other existing established multiplatform gaming IPs that they've acquired, I believe it's likely that new and existing single player Xbox gaming IPs will instead be timed exclusives in the future rather than day and date releases.

However, there's one interesting twist in this whole thing. I think Halo could become both a day and date multi-console release (the multiplayer part) and a timed exclusive release (the single player campaign DLCs).

Regards,
SB

what does WRT mean?

MS has a huge market of potential buyers if they know their stuff, it's kinda mediocre that the creators of Windows make a totally close hardware that it's not working when they could create actually successful PCs too, and instead of xbox call it windows gaming or whatever.

That being said, given the huge operational costs of so many studios as @Charlietus said, and the current sales situation, MS needs Playstation and Nintendo, as healthy as possible.

 

[DavidGraham]

Food for thoughts:

Xbox in 2016: we will only release select Xbox games on PC
PlayStation in 2020: we will only release select PlayStation games on PC
PlayStation in 2021: PlayStation games will not come to PC on Day 1

Fast forward to 2024: every Xbox game is on PC, most PlayStation titles are on PC, and Sony is planning future games to be released on PC on Day 1 or close to it.

Xbox in 2024: select Xbox games will be released on PlayStation

 

[iroboto]

Food for thoughts:

Xbox in 2016: we will only release select Xbox games on PC
PlayStation in 2020: we will only release select PlayStation games on PC
PlayStation in 2021: PlayStation games will not come to PC on Day 1

Fast forward to 2024: every Xbox game is on PC, most PlayStation titles are on PC, and Sony is planning future games to be released on PC on Day 1 or close to it.

Xbox in 2024: select Xbox games will be released on PlayStation

Yea this is natural. Businesses know how to operate and what their costs and margins and threats are; comparatively to gamers who are connected to the product differently and have a very different view of the landscape of entertainment and identity versus keeping the lights on and making a large enough profit for business operations to continue

The console market is shrinking because silicon costs are destabilizing their ability to offer new experiences at a price point that is affordable. That’s really why we are seeing this shift, higher price points means a smaller population. Eventually you’ll eat and heavier losses on hardware or pass those costs to the consumer. They got a nice boost from covid, but that’s about it.

On the other hand, The majority of the profit comes from the marketplace/software sales, so both are starting to pivot respectfully. MS first because it can, Sony second because it’s the leader.

 

[cheapchips]

Food for thoughts:

Xbox in 2016: we will only release select Xbox games on PC
PlayStation in 2020: we will only release select PlayStation games on PC
PlayStation in 2021: PlayStation games will not come to PC on Day 1

Fast forward to 2024: every Xbox game is on PC, most PlayStation titles are on PC, and Sony is planning future games to be released on PC on Day 1 or close to it.

Xbox in 2024: select Xbox games will be released on PlayStation

More nibbles:

Playstation in 2024: GaaS games on PC day one

Playstation in 2025: Some our GaaS games are coming to Xbox.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

what does WRT mean?

WRT = With Regard To

Regards,
SB

 

[Cyan]

There was a chart from a during the FTC trial which I can't fine right now. It showed the change in % split of Xbox & PS hardware sales going back several years. The impact of excludives had an dramatic impact in launch week and then not much of a tail. I though it was interesting, and it's the sort of data MS will look at (they might have commissioned it to make a point in the trial though!).

by that you mean the exclusives have an impact during the launch of the console itself because core fans know which exclusives the console has and buy it given that knowledge, or do you mean they have an impact during the launch week of the game regardless of the moment within the life's cycle of the console?

 

[metacore]

Food for thoughts:

Xbox in 2016: we will only release select Xbox games on PC
PlayStation in 2020: we will only release select PlayStation games on PC
PlayStation in 2021: PlayStation games will not come to PC on Day 1

Fast forward to 2024: every Xbox game is on PC, most PlayStation titles are on PC, and Sony is planning future games to be released on PC on Day 1 or close to it.

Xbox in 2024: select Xbox games will be released on PlayStation

Today, for sure at some lunch in Tokyo

Sony: Right behind you! Please guide us in business as always Microsoft ! Podcast coming in three years. We only need to figure out how to do cross-system device shop, license, saves and PR for how we believe "next generation"


Metacore looking in disgust on these "dedicated" themes : Sony dual sense only please, Goddamit nvidia just give me up to 150 Watt, 16gig+ card which can serve my soon to arrive 3440 ultrawide at 80 fps before frame gen.

 

[cheapchips]

by that you mean the exclusives have an impact during the launch of the console itself because core fans know which exclusives the console has and buy it given that knowledge, or do you mean they have an impact during the launch week of the game regardless of the moment within the life's cycle of the console?

Console sales in the launch week of the title. It's a short lived impact.

 

[RDGoodla]

Is it possible that Ms releases another 12TF home console in holiday 2026 which is $299?

It seems that shrinking of Series x GPU is harder because the die size is large. Can they use Zen4 or Zen5, and GPU 40 CUS with 2.4 GHz to backward compatible with Series x?

 

[Johnny Awesome]

But what's the point of investing all the resources into hardware when they're trying to push this idea of being able to play anywhere else instead? Why would I not just get a Playstation that can play all these Microsoft games *and* Playstation 1st party games? What is the selling point going to be, exactly?

It's simple: Xbox is a GP delivery system. Not to mention a money maker overall because of the 30% store revenue of 3rd party games. Despite all the gloom and doom talk they are still likely going to have 50-60 million Xbox sold by the time Sony launches the PS6. Some of them might be these hypothetical new systems in 2026, but it's still 60 million Xbox ecosystem players.