Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion

[Cyan]

I think one of the ways MS is keeping costs down is by doing more 10 hour games like Hellblade 2 and South of Midnight. They know that 90% of people never play more than 10 hours of most games and just have to hold attention long enough to justify their subscription to GP. Some games like Starfield have to be 40+ hours with DLC, but a lot of games can do with less. Indiana Jones is the middle ground, I think. I'm guessing Avowed will be 30+ hours as well.

This is a solid lineup from late Oct to mid May (7 months):

CoD BO6
FS 2024
Indiana Jones
Ninja Gaiden Black 2 Remastered
Avowed
South of Midnight
Clair Obscur 33
Doom DA

great post. Shorter games are also very valuable, as long as they are fun. Arcadey games like Wild Guns, or the ones you mention...

I have friends who only purchase arcade like games or games that last 1 hour or so on STeam, and even when they buy beat em' ups, anything longer than 1 hour 20 minutes isn't a good beat em' up for them.

Right now I am too focused on Xcom 2 and loving it though. I put it on my "Games I Want To Complete" collection on STeam, and until I finish it -if I like it a lot, it seems so, I might get the expansions too- I don't see myself playing other games.

 

[arandomguy]

That's fair from what I've heard and my limited experience with it, but they won't leave it like that forever. I'm not sure what the hold up is. They might be integrating everything.

I don't think it's as simple as just working on the program as Microsoft (and not just them either) faces massive mindshare issues with PC gaming. Right now with PC gaming, especially among the more vocal contingent/enthuasist side, anything that is not Steam and especially anything looking to displace Steam is viewed as anathema.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

It's not as simple as that, but we can't even have a conversation about Xbox GP being a competitor to Steam on PC until Xbox GP is in a much better state. It's at least a necessary condition, if not a sufficient one.

 

[see colon]

Because they don't need outdated ads. Soon, as MS games come out, many people will realize that Game Pass is a great thing. MS's multiplatform strategy is absolutely brilliant, they release their games for $70 on other platforms, while you can get them all for much less on their subscription service. I wouldn't be surprised to see a significant increase in GP subscribers soon.

They need ads, though. I see almost no ads for Gamepass. I know lots of "gamers", especially PC gamers, who have no idea Gamepass, or even Window's built in store, exists.

I don't think it's as simple as just working on the program as Microsoft (and not just them either) faces massive mindshare issues with PC gaming. Right now with PC gaming, especially among the more vocal contingent/enthuasist side, anything that is not Steam and especially anything looking to displace Steam is viewed as anathema.

Anathema - What a great band. I can't believe they used to open for Cannibal Corpse. But yeah, the loyalty to Steam is mind boggling to me. My PC digital library is split among Steam, GOG, Epic, Windows Store... Even a couple titles on Amazon. Partly because I go where the sales are, and partly because, as people often bring up, if a digital storefront goes down, you may lose access to your library. Diversifying my library to several storefronts allows me to still play games if one of these storefronts goes down, even if temporary.

 

[Cappuccino]

Because they don't need outdated ads. Soon, as MS games come out, many people will realize that Game Pass is a great thing. MS's multiplatform strategy is absolutely brilliant, they release their games for $70 on other platforms, while you can get them all for much less on their subscription service. I wouldn't be surprised to see a significant increase in GP subscribers soon.

So they sell consoles at a loss to sell subscriptions to get games cheaper? This makes it sound like they make more money on games sold on other platforms than they do their own console.

I am skeptical of any prediction that says everyone’s going to suddenly realize the value of gamepass: you could effectively get gamepass for free for a long time with the conversion method, and it still wasn’t popular enough to move the needle.

 

[Cappuccino]

They need ads, though. I see almost no ads for Gamepass. I know lots of "gamers", especially PC gamers, who have no idea Gamepass, or even Window's built in store, exists.

Anathema - What a great band. I can't believe they used to open for Cannibal Corpse. But yeah, the loyalty to Steam is mind boggling to me. My PC digital library is split among Steam, GOG, Epic, Windows Store... Even a couple titles on Amazon. Partly because I go where the sales are, and partly because, as people often bring up, if a digital storefront goes down, you may lose access to your library. Diversifying my library to several storefronts allows me to still play games if one of these storefronts goes down, even if temporary.

I stick to steam on purpose because they are easily the most consumer friendly platform, and they simply work the best.

 

[JPT]

This is a solid lineup from late Oct to mid May (7 months):

CoD BO6
FS 2024
Indiana Jones
Ninja Gaiden Black 2 Remastered
Avowed
South of Midnight
Clair Obscur 33
Doom DA

Across that list and the PS State of play, it is only Indiana Jones and Split Fiction I want to play. I find that very sad, anyway maybe its time with a break from gaming.

 

[see colon]

I stick to steam on purpose because they are easily the most consumer friendly platform, and they simply work the best.

GOG has no DRM, no forced online, and 30 day return policy with no play time limit. That's more than twice the return period and without the 2 hour play time limitation of Steam, Windows or Epic. Also, GOG didn't sell me a bunch of games that work on windows older than Windows 10, and then update their launcher to only work on Windows 10. In fact, they don't require me to use a launcher.
Windows Store allows me to buy some games once and play it on PC and Xbox.
GOG gives out free games usually every month or two.
Epic gives out games every week.
Amazon gives out games with Prime subscriptions for their own digital storefront, Epic, Legacy Games, and GOG.

That's not to say that there's anything wrong with Steam, I just don't think they are the most consumer friendly. Works the best? Yeah, probably, when it's working. Steam does maintenance every Tuesday in the middle of the day, and doesn't work for about an hour, usually. It might disproportionately affect me because I often have Tuesdays off, but I don't believe Epic or Windows Store have as much scheduled downtime as Steam. And if they do, they probably do that in the middle of the night. GOG doesn't have this problem at all because the games never phone home. The most you get is a could sync failed message.

Regardless, at the end of the day, I'm not willing to put my games library completely in one basket.

 

[QPlayer]

So they sell consoles at a loss to sell subscriptions to get games cheaper? This makes it sound like they make more money on games sold on other platforms than they do their own console.

I am skeptical of any prediction that says everyone’s going to suddenly realize the value of gamepass: you could effectively get gamepass for free for a long time with the conversion method, and it still wasn’t popular enough to move the needle.

This is old information and not at all relevant to the big picture. Even if there was some loss on consoles sold before, much more revenue came from Game Pass and games. Just look at the financial department reports. A lot of time has passed since then, and every Series X console sold can easily turn a profit. But like I said, it's secondary, most of the money comes from subscriptions.

One part of their strategy is multiplatform game releases, and the other half is Game Pass. And this shows that, in a very forward-looking way, the MS game division stands on several stable feet.

In the past, 2-3 first party games were published in the GP every year... But this year there are already 10+ and they are all Day1. They were waiting for their developments to mature. It will be interesting to see the reactions. A phenomenon that can already be observed on social channels, especially on YouTube, is that more and more people are discovering Game Pass due to the upcoming waves of MS games. And that's just the beginning.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

GamePass isn't for everyone, but a lot of people are still in the dark about it as well, especially on PC.

One of my sons loved it and subscribed until his life got so busy he doesn't play games anymore. The other son just plays Call of Duty. That's it. He has no use for GP.

For myself, I usually play about 6 releases a year on it to varying degrees of completion, though last year was different because I got sucked into LOTRO for 6 months (but stayed subscribed to GP). 6 games would run me about twice the cost of GP if I didn't have GP and game ownership doesn't really matter to me so it's a net win for me. I can't name one game in the last 20 years that I needed to own because I wanted to play it again. I'm just not a retro guy in practice really. Besides most digital releases are eventually super cheap anyway and when Witcher 3 left GP I bought it for $7 so I could finish it "one day". Most things like Dragon Quest XI that got super tedious later in the game, I just let go.

I know I'm a big GP cheerleader around here, but I always want to be honest about how much I actually use it. Sure I could claim that I played $600 of games for $180 on GP last year, but honestly it's more like $300 worth of games. Still worth it to me and a nice feature is being able to try a ton of games and learn that they weren't for me, like Lies of P which I was fine with the difficult boss fights, but not with the fact that it thought it was a platformer when it really wasn't. I was really glad I didn't pay $60 for that one and ditched it at the 10 hour mark when it got too frustrating.

I find that in talking to other Xbox fans, most people don't mind losing exclusives to PS and Switch as long as we get another excellent console to buy down the road. We don't want PlayStations for various reasons. If MS brings out a successor to XSX at a reasonable price, every Xbox fan I know is buying one.

I'm also of the mindset now that MS was never going to peel PS users away on masse by the power of their exclusive offerings this generation. They lost the digital ecosystem war to Sony in the X1/PS4 generation.

I understand a lot of people think otherwise and a lot of those people think MS is giving up, but I just think that Phil and the gang are being realistic. GP is guaranteed revenue and so they want to keep those people happy by putting out more hardware, but then they make mega bucks on PC, PS and Switch.

PS: Eventually all Sony releases will be on PC with very little time delay and they will likely be forced by regulators to allow GP on PS. This is another situation like - hard drive, networking, requiring online, digital releases where Xbox is ahead of the curve. Everyone will holler and scream until Sony follows them and it will all be okay then. Just business as usual.

 

[cheapchips]

I can't name one game in the last 20 years that I needed to own because I wanted to play it again.

I can name a few, but in general feel the same way. I'd never experience the variety of modern titles I do without Gamepass.

 

[Cyan]

Across that list and the PS State of play, it is only Indiana Jones and Split Fiction I want to play. I find that very sad, anyway maybe its time with a break from gaming.

depending on your tastes, or mood, you can always play some great simpler games in the meantime. Like say Command & Conquer Remastered Collection, and things like that.

I'm currently playing XCom 2 to play calmly and so on.

 

[Cyan]

GOG has no DRM, no forced online, and 30 day return policy with no play time limit. That's more than twice the return period and without the 2 hour play time limitation of Steam, Windows or Epic. Also, GOG didn't sell me a bunch of games that work on windows older than Windows 10, and then update their launcher to only work on Windows 10. In fact, they don't require me to use a launcher.
Windows Store allows me to buy some games once and play it on PC and Xbox.
GOG gives out free games usually every month or two.
Epic gives out games every week.
Amazon gives out games with Prime subscriptions for their own digital storefront, Epic, Legacy Games, and GOG.

That's not to say that there's anything wrong with Steam, I just don't think they are the most consumer friendly. Works the best? Yeah, probably, when it's working. Steam does maintenance every Tuesday in the middle of the day, and doesn't work for about an hour, usually. It might disproportionately affect me because I often have Tuesdays off, but I don't believe Epic or Windows Store have as much scheduled downtime as Steam. And if they do, they probably do that in the middle of the night. GOG doesn't have this problem at all because the games never phone home. The most you get is a could sync failed message.

Regardless, at the end of the day, I'm not willing to put my games library completely in one basket.

GoG is theoretically my favourite too, but I gotta admit that Steam is just too good. The Workshop to add mods, the helpful forums, the interface ,collections, etc etc. And they still are very pro consumer, imho. ITs like the perfect place to play games.

 

[see colon]

GoG is theoretically my favourite too, but I gotta admit that Steam is just too good. The Workshop to add mods, the helpful forums, the interface ,collections, etc etc. And they still are very pro consumer, imho. ITs like the perfect place to play games.

Except on Tuesdays between 1pm and 3pm PST.

 

[rntongo]

GamePass isn't for everyone, but a lot of people are still in the dark about it as well, especially on PC.

One of my sons loved it and subscribed until his life got so busy he doesn't play games anymore. The other son just plays Call of Duty. That's it. He has no use for GP.

For myself, I usually play about 6 releases a year on it to varying degrees of completion, though last year was different because I got sucked into LOTRO for 6 months (but stayed subscribed to GP). 6 games would run me about twice the cost of GP if I didn't have GP and game ownership doesn't really matter to me so it's a net win for me. I can't name one game in the last 20 years that I needed to own because I wanted to play it again. I'm just not a retro guy in practice really. Besides most digital releases are eventually super cheap anyway and when Witcher 3 left GP I bought it for $7 so I could finish it "one day". Most things like Dragon Quest XI that got super tedious later in the game, I just let go.

I know I'm a big GP cheerleader around here, but I always want to be honest about how much I actually use it. Sure I could claim that I played $600 of games for $180 on GP last year, but honestly it's more like $300 worth of games. Still worth it to me and a nice feature is being able to try a ton of games and learn that they weren't for me, like Lies of P which I was fine with the difficult boss fights, but not with the fact that it thought it was a platformer when it really wasn't. I was really glad I didn't pay $60 for that one and ditched it at the 10 hour mark when it got too frustrating.

I find that in talking to other Xbox fans, most people don't mind losing exclusives to PS and Switch as long as we get another excellent console to buy down the road. We don't want PlayStations for various reasons. If MS brings out a successor to XSX at a reasonable price, every Xbox fan I know is buying one.

I'm also of the mindset now that MS was never going to peel PS users away on masse by the power of their exclusive offerings this generation. They lost the digital ecosystem war to Sony in the X1/PS4 generation.

I understand a lot of people think otherwise and a lot of those people think MS is giving up, but I just think that Phil and the gang are being realistic. GP is guaranteed revenue and so they want to keep those people happy by putting out more hardware, but then they make mega bucks on PC, PS and Switch.

PS: Eventually all Sony releases will be on PC with very little time delay and they will likely be forced by regulators to allow GP on PS. This is another situation like - hard drive, networking, requiring online, digital releases where Xbox is ahead of the curve. Everyone will holler and scream until Sony follows them and it will all be okay then. Just business as usual.

I've been saying this must be what Phil is hoping to achieve for a long time. But its not going to happen imho for the following reasons:

1.) MS Gaming is going to be facing serious lawsuits if it tries any other major acquisitions unless it becomes a full 3rd party publisher and exits the console or hw business. Even then they will still face anti competition lawsuits for any more major acquisitions
2.) Valve is going to fight back against this, thats a nasty anti competitive lawsuit MS doesnt want to get into if it tries to force GP onto smaller competitors
3.) SDLC will always favour fixed hw over MS's traditional business model.

 

[rntongo]

Xbox Series console sales are even worse than I thought.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1890028873263562898

https://twitter.com/x/status/1890176247009104128

Series consoles have sold ~25 million units in total. MS hasnt made considerable efforts to make the X cheaper to manufacture as well which is just leaving money off the table. You can see the revenues from the hw business is only $14bn after 5 years which is quite terrible in today's age. Also goes to show Series S sales really brought down revenues and margins because that $14bn includes accessories as well. MS should consider a handheld next gen as well as OEM business otherwise Phil has fumbled the hw business through and through.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1890763367767224493

This dude from Tweaktown cant make sense of the facts

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I've been saying this must be what Phil is hoping to achieve for a long time. But its not going to happen imho for the following reasons:

1.) MS Gaming is going to be facing serious lawsuits if it tries any other major acquisitions unless it becomes a full 3rd party publisher and exits the console or hw business. Even then they will still face anti competition lawsuits for any more major acquisitions
2.) Valve is going to fight back against this, thats a nasty anti competitive lawsuit MS doesnt want to get into if it tries to force GP onto smaller competitors
3.) SDLC will always favour fixed hw over MS's traditional business model.

Not if regulators pave the way. Sony is the one who might be in trouble.

I could believe that X Series sales are somewhere around 30 million. Thankfully MS doesn't measure success by hardware sales.

 

[QPlayer]

Not if regulators pave the way. Sony is the one who might be in trouble.

I could believe that X Series sales are somewhere around 30 million. Thankfully MS doesn't measure success by hardware sales.

It is not possible to infer accurate data from these, because the quantities delivered are not accurate to date. So yes, according to most sources, there are more than 30 million Series X/S sold on the market.

There is only one reliable data on how the two consoles currently perform compared to each other in periodic sales, and this is the data of Amazon's public best sellers. Currently, in the UK, both the X and the S are ahead of the PS in sales:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsel...b6-e9cc-4f55-8f28-90de1e6bfd31&pf_rd_p=e40a6a

When in stock on US Amazon, the SX performs similarly to the PS. There is more demand for Xboxes than before, probably because of the recent and coming MS games and Gamepass.

 

[see colon]

This dude from Tweaktown cant make sense of the facts

Does Microsoft include controllers and accessories in hardware numbers.

 

[rntongo]

Not if regulators pave the way. Sony is the one who might be in trouble.

I could believe that X Series sales are somewhere around 30 million. Thankfully MS doesn't measure success by hardware sales.

forcing GP on Steam OS, Playstation and Nintendo is not the pro consumer move you think it is. I dont even know how they could spin it.

Does Microsoft include controllers and accessories in hardware numbers.

Yes it does!!