Xbox 360/AA/AF
- Thread starter Natoma
- Start date
Your thread on tile-based rendering was very nice but statements such as the one above only serve to label you as being narrow-minded. Are you seriously suggesting that an IMR system with full FP precision throughout the pipeline (vertex to frame buffer) cannot achieve "good" image quality?Lazy8s said:
fresh said:
HyperZ data doesn't have to reside in the eDRAM buffer. Moreover, HyperZ is a catch-all marketing term that includes lossless MSAA FB compression. As for not allocating stencil or alpha, I don't know about the XBox 360, but on other 3D architectures it was possible.
Yes, and it will be dog slow, if you have to spill the backbuffer to main memory, or implement manual tiling. You go from 256Gb/s to 22gb/s. If the future is that all games are Hidef + AA + HDR, than the Xbox360 certainly isn't an architecture optimized for those requirements as your eDRAM is not living up to its potential, and you may as well have used that die space for something else.
If MS truly intended most games to use Hidef + AA +HDR, that would have required enough eDRAM to fit a 720p HDR 2xAA scene.
DemoCoder said:
Well, I'm tellin' ya - 32bit min for rendering surfaces, HyperZ is on edram, there's no compression afaict, and developers will have to tile their scenes to make hidef rendering possible with AA.. and no you don't go from 256gb to 22gb. You split your scene vertically/horizontally.. render half, a third or whatever into edram, copy it out to main ram, and repeat for the other tiles. There's some built in hardware support that makes it easier, but still it's PITA.. I'm not making this up
Natoma said:
Well, that just means that the new platform should be able to run HL2, D3 or FC at that resolution with AA and AF at a good framerate.
I expect X360 games to have much more eye-candy than those games.
Like DOA3 or PDO still look better than most PC games.
It's a different approach, and i hope they keep focusing on the eye candy first, then AA and AF if they can squeeze the performance out of the box.
Was it running on final hardware? Well, there's your reason why.Natoma said:
Jawed said:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=518014#518014
Hmm. That true? If so, this question would seem to be rather moot. There would be more than enough memory to support high res AA/AF.
fresh said:Well, I'm tellin' ya - 32bit min for rendering surfaces, HyperZ is on edram, there's no compression afaict, and developers will have to tile their scenes to make hidef rendering possible with AA.. and no you don't go from 256gb to 22gb. You split your scene vertically/horizontally.. render half, a third or whatever into edram, copy it out to main ram, and repeat for the other tiles. There's some built in hardware support that makes it easier, but still it's PITA.. I'm not making this up
No tile compression? You don't seem very sure of yourself. This feature has existed on every MSAA implementation since GF3 and R300. Moreover, to be able to split the scene, you need to access to post-transform vertices, so now you've got to run your vertex shaders with transform only, cache up all the post-transformed data, and then potentially run them again later if the vertex shaders were doing setup for pixel shaders.
It's going to hurt performance and is such a PITA that most games aren't going to do it. Translation: Xbox360 is not a platform where wie will see HDR used everywhere.
DemoCoder said:fresh said:Well, I'm tellin' ya - 32bit min for rendering surfaces, HyperZ is on edram, there's no compression afaict, and developers will have to tile their scenes to make hidef rendering possible with AA.. and no you don't go from 256gb to 22gb. You split your scene vertically/horizontally.. render half, a third or whatever into edram, copy it out to main ram, and repeat for the other tiles. There's some built in hardware support that makes it easier, but still it's PITA.. I'm not making this up
No tile compression? You don't seem very sure of yourself. This feature has existed on every MSAA implementation since GF3 and R300. Moreover, to be able to split the scene, you need to access to post-transform vertices, so now you've got to run your vertex shaders with transform only, cache up all the post-transformed data, and then potentially run them again later if the vertex shaders were doing setup for pixel shaders.
It's going to hurt performance and is such a PITA that most games aren't going to do it. Translation: Xbox360 is not a platform where wie will see HDR used everywhere.
The only thing I'm not sure of is the MSAA compression. Haven't looked into it. The rest is correct.
You don't need access to the post-transform vertex cache if you reissue the entire scene. The game has to redraw, but there's a some hardware support to help out. I'm 100% on this, I'm sure someone else can confirm.
