WTF has happened to Dennis Miller?

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He stopped being funny as soon as he lost the ability to use profanity. He went on Monday Night Football--it's weird. It's not funny, though. He gets a show on MSNBC or CNBC or wherever and does his best Jon Stewart impersonation--not funny. On HBO, he was funny. Now? Lame.

It's a low-rate Daily Show.
 
Miller's always been a conservative. But look at it this way. Miller let the guy deliver an uninterupted soliliquy of his political views with a few sardonic comments. Bill O'Reilley would have been constantly interrupting the guy and saying "Shut UP"

The guest seemed to be be mixing up historical eras. It was almost like he was claiming that during '91 gulf war, we were supplying Hussein with intelligence to gas Kurds.

Alterman may be right about the case made for going to war in Iraq, but he tries to stretch it too far over *all* administration policies, and frankly, I don't buy it.

Washington Post Book Review said:
One mustn't be misled by Eric Alterman and Mark Green's title, The Book on Bush: How George W. (Mis)leads America. Unlike the shelf of recent titles that juxtapose "Bush" and "lies," this volume is not an anti-Dubya screed. Indeed, the authors are polite; they assert mildly that the 43rd president "frequently dissembles." And so they stay above the ad Texasem insults and the snobbish preoccupation with malapropisms that cheapen so many critiques of the Oval Office occupant. Their book is not for partisan hacks; it's for partisan nerds. It offers a fiercely footnoted assault on the incumbent's policies while barely putting a scratch on the man himself.

Yet while the authors have elevated their tone, they haven't expanded their reach. This is not a gospel to make converts, but rather a hymnal for the choir. And that should come as no shock; Alterman is a columnist for the Nation, and Green, an original Nader's Raider, was the Democratic nominee against Michael Bloomberg in the 2001 New York mayoral election. From their port-side perspective, they can find neither plausibility nor popular appeal in the administration's policies -- which means they can't adequately answer the question "If Bush is so bad, how come he's so far ahead?"

We might start where Alterman and Green start: with Bush's energy and environmental policy. From their Manhattan vantage point, they see the administration as one big oil slick of special interests and dirty deeds. They deride Bush's platform as "talk globally, harm locally." They seem particularly wounded over the president's kiboshing of the Kyoto global warming treaty, and yet they neglect to mention the most obvious fact about Kyoto, that the treaty was unacceptable to elected Democrats as well as Republicans. On July 25, 1997, the U.S. Senate voted 95-0 to reject the treaty even before the Clinton administration could submit it -- which, of course, it never did. So beware, Democratic nerds seeking to use this book for your next appearance on "Crossfire": The authors will not help you anticipate the best comebacks from the Republican nerds. Other chapters, with too-clever-by-half titles -- "Déjà Vu-doo Economics," "When Laissez Isn't Fair" -- are similarly one-sided. They argue that Bushonomics is a "proven failure" at creating jobs but never come to grips with the changes in the cyber-economy that have made the decline of manufacturing jobs a quarter-century-long trend. And by the way, would enacting the Kyoto treaty pump up employment in Michigan? Yet even the authors are forced to concede (kinda, sorta) that Bushonomics has done O.K.: "In the short term, President Bush's stimulative policies . . . should produce the illusion of adequate growth for his 2004 election."

Alterman and Green laid a trap for themselves when they set out to write a comprehensive critique of all Bush policies, on everything from AIDS to the World Trade Organization; not all Bush policies are equally vulnerable to attack. The authors complain, for example, that in the wake of Sept. 11 Bush reversed the Clinton policy of "presumed disclosure to one of presumed closure," without ever acknowledging the longstanding bipartisan concern over the spillage of nuclear secrets into the public domain -- and into foreign hands. On other occasions, they drift into generalized attacks on the Republican Party as a whole. Is it really Bush's fault -- or even Karl Rove's -- that Republican activists allegedly tried to suppress the black vote in Maryland, Arkansas and Louisiana?

It's not until the last half of the book, as the authors shift from domestic to foreign policy, that their criticism rises above the level of advanced-placement Democratic National Committee talking points. Indeed, Alterman and Green are at their most effective when they merely remind the reader of what Bush has had to say about the doctrine that bears his name, such as, "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." That's not in my Bible; the words sound more like those of a Jesus-freaked Rudyard Kipling carrying a very big stick. To be sure, some readers will savor those Michael Gersonesque words and praise God for Bush's moral clarity. But others will agree with the authors, who suggest that the Bush Doctrine is a "formula for endless war in the service of a global empire."

In The Book on Bush's view, the only folks who should like the Texan are "extremist elements of the Republican Party -- the religious right, Fortune 500 CEOs, especially those from the oil patch, and neoconservative ideologues." Yet plainly, his support is much broader than that, and by the last page the reader is still wondering why that could be so. About the closest the authors come to answering the question is their jibe that "the conviction that God is his copilot has saved Bush a great deal of time and worry as to how to proceed."

Today, most polls still show that a majority of Americans want Bush to continue on as their pilot. And this tome -- Manhattan's revenge against Midland -- is not likely to change that electoral flight plan.
 
Vince said:
Same, that ending was gold.

Pretty low grade quality gold, IMO. Sarcastically saying come back anytime when it's obvious the reverse was intended isn't exactly the height of comedic genius.

If Miller wants a more conservative show, that's fine. But why invite a liberal guest and completely fail to address any of the points he's raising, instead choosing to mock his posture or mannerisms? It's like Miller had absolutely no legs to stand on during that discussion because there was no attempt whatsoever on his part to debate with the guest (which I think kept throwing Alterman off). I've just never seen Miller act like that before (and O'Reilly isn't a comedian).

I give Alterman credit for lasting until the segment was over in the face of such immature unprofessionalism. His books, on the other hand, sound like a hardcore left wingers wet dream in print.
 
John Reynolds said:
Pretty low grade quality gold, IMO. Sarcastically saying come back anytime when it's obvious the reverse was intended isn't exactly the height of comedic genius.

Um, actually it was great after that long, contrived monologue which was more akin to the stereotypical liberal elitist mentality than any dynamic dialogue. It was nothing but 5minutes of Eric Alterman and his continual Bush Bashing.

If Miller wants a more conservative show, that's fine. But why invite a liberal guest and completely fail to address any of the points he's raising, instead choosing to mock his posture or mannerisms? It's like Miller had absolutely no legs to stand on during that discussion because there was no attempt whatsoever on his part to debate with the guest (which I think kept throwing Alterman off). I've just never seen Miller act like that before (and O'Reilly isn't a comedian).

It's not a strictly liberal/conservative issue like you're trying to paint it. It doesn't matter what bullshit the guy is spewing, but he did it continually, rudely and did nothing but the same old rhetoric and talking points 101. It gets old for the rest of us who don't get off to it John.

And when Miller tried to make a counter-argument, the guy cut him off and continued on his old "Well, by the, so, but these same people... [blah, blah]." There can be no discussion when one guy is a recurrent voice with no responce possible. I think it's Miller who correctly got POed when he pulled that with him time and time again and responded "just take the rest of the segment" or something to that regard. Good for him.

I give Alterman credit for lasting until the segment was over in the face of such immature unprofessionalism. His books, on the other hand, sound like a hardcore left wingers wet dream in print.

Lasting untill the end? Surviving what? Braving what.... talking that long without a source of hydration?
 
Vince said:
Um, actually it was great after that long, contrived monologue which was more akin to the stereotypical liberal elitist mentality than any dialogue. It was nothing but 5minutes of Eric Alterman and his continual Bush Bashing.

Yes, questioning why the current administration is suddenly backpedaling away from the WMD as justification for invading Iraq into a "we got rid of a bad dictator" and wanting to discuss weighing the costs of removing one dictatorship must be branded as "stereotypical liberal elitist mentality". Yeah, Alterman is a flaming liberal but just like their polar opposites they are capable of raising valid points.

It's not a strictly liberal/conservative issue like you're trying to paint it. It doesn't matter what bullshit the guy is spewing, but he did it continually, rudely and did nothing but the same old rhetoric and talking points 101. It gets old for the rest of us who don't get off to it John.

It gets old to you, Vince, because you've already determined in your own mind that our invasion of Iraq is the greatest endeavor this nation has engaged in since the 19th century. Those who don't agree must be branded as liberal nuts. And if his points were so 101, they would've been easily rebutted. Miller tried sophomorically giving him enough rope to hang himself by asking if he believed Bush knew of 9/11 prior to the actual attack. Moreover, when is Miller so easily cut off? You mean the man running the show lost total control of it to a stereotypical liberal elitist?

Lasting untill the end? Surviving what? Braving what.... talking that long without a source of hydration?

I would've walked. There can be no serious discussion when the interviewer, for whatever reason, chooses to act like a child.
 
Raise your hand IF you actually watched the whole show yesterday.

[raises hand]
I actually watch the show (i tivo it, to be exact). DM was quite polite to the guy. Alterman from the begining was posturing himself in way that put off DM. The way he sat, and stared blankly towards DM. If you watch any other interviews that DM has on, look at the difference in how the guest interacts with DM.

On a side note, DM is not a true conservative. If you ACTUALLY watch the show, youll hear him support gay marriage, among other liberal causes. I love how people are commenting on his show by only watching a VERY small clip from one particular guest.
[lowers hand]

later,
epic
ps please say whether or not you actually watch his show regularly.
 
Lol, a dissenting voice. :)

http://www.southknoxbubba.net/skblog/archive_2004_03.php#2758

Yeah, I've read that they have to pay people to be in the audience. There could be a legitimate reason but I take it as a bad sign for the show's future.

Here's Alterman's take on things.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3449870/

<snip>

Anyway, what was so weird about it was how professional it seemed until I finally sat down with Miller. It was set up long in advance by the book’s publicists. The car came on time. In my dressing room, which was pretty elaborate as such things go, I met with a series of staff members who informed me that Dennis would be wanting to discuss topics such as George Soros and the funding of 527s; whether Bush was exploiting the 9/11 families, and I forget what else, just like a real talk show. Then I go out there and what? I’m talking to a stoned teenager, who can’t be bothered to say more than, “Whoh, man, you are so totally screwed up. Like, you really believe that stuff, dude?†I paraphrase, but really, Dennis did not say much more than that. Everyone on staff was extremely apologetic afterward and the word “unprofessional†was used over and over.

I try to avoid most of these guys, though I’ve been on O’Reilly, and Scarborough and Michael Medved’s silly radio program a couple of times but never have I encountered a guy who could not be bothered to make his own case on his own show. Really, what can CNBC be thinking with this guy? His ratings are not just in the toilet they have traveled all the way to the septic tank. And as we all know, they need to pay audience members to show up. It has got to cost more than the Phil Donahue show to produce, given the size of the audience and the set and that was yanked even though it was then the highest rated show on MSNBC.

I used to think I should be given half of Joe Scarborough’s show. His ratings aren’t so hot and we sort of get along and things could only improve. Now, perhaps I should be patient and just wait for Miller to implode a couple of more times and then offer my services to the machers up at NBC News. No need for lengthy negotiations. I’ll take whatever Dennis was getting, plus money for liquor and food for my friends when they do the program.

P.S. JR, we must be hitting some of the same dubious sites, lol. I had just posted that link over at Slacker's place after which I came here and saw this thread. Hehehe, I won't tell if you won't. :) JK!
 
John Reynolds said:
Yes, questioning why the current administration is suddenly backpedaling away from the WMD as justification for invading Iraq into a "we got rid of a bad dictator" and wanting to discuss weighing the costs of removing one dictatorship must be branded as "stereotypical liberal elitist mentality". Yeah, Alterman is a flaming liberal but just like their polar opposites they are capable of raising valid points.

Is this a point? I don't think there's a damn thing worth responding to in here... I know exactly what Miller felt like. Is it because I can't? Hardly.

It gets old to you, Vince, because you've already determined in your own mind that our invasion of Iraq is the greatest endeavor this nation has engaged in since the 19th century. Those who don't agree must be branded as liberal nuts. And if his points were so 101, they would've been easily rebutted. Miller tried sophomorically giving him enough rope to hang himself by asking if he believed Bush knew of 9/11 prior to the actual attack. Moreover, when is Miller so easily cut off? You mean the man running the show lost total control of it to a stereotypical liberal elitist?

First of all, he hardly lost control of his show. It's more like he was trying to be respectful and bite-his-tongue untill the guy cut him off on his own show and he went off on him.

Second, The audience was already laughing at him... what more did Miller have to do?

Third, can't you find your own "big words" without stealing them from the damn website?

I would've walked. There can be no serious discussion when the interviewer, for whatever reason, chooses to act like a child.

Act like a child? I saw nothing on here such as that untill he cut Dennis's responce (which you said would have been appropriate to hear) off. And it is certainly nothing worse, in this extreme case, than the shit antics you see on Bill Maher's Show - but you don't see you critisizing him now do you?
 
I got an idea ! How bout arguing about whether what the man said was right or wrong. We know he was correct so there is no way supporters of the administration can argue about it. Instead they practice demogogeury. Don't expect them to answer , they won't. They willonly change the subject. It's there only option. The only question is can they create enough FUD to maintain power.
 
Vince, I act like that guy in real life and you call me childish yet you don't think that guy is childish? :oops: :?
 
I went to the site to see at what point the interview started. If memory serves me right, there at least 20-30 seconds that we dont see from the beginning. Nice how they left that out. I wish i hadnt deleted the show.

later,
epic
 
Come one people, I am sure we can put our ideological differences aside long enough to admit that DM was unprofessional by any definition of the word.
 
Geeforcer said:
Come one people, I am sure we can put our ideological differences aside long enough to admit that DM was unprofessional by any definition of the word.
I would disagree, as an avid DM fan, I would say the guest was a bit offensive from the start. Again people are commenting without saying whether or not they watched the _whole_ show. ;) Doesnt seem to be hard question to answer.

later,
epic
 
I didn't catch the whole show, but I did see the entire segment - and I saw nothing that would warrant this kind of childish BS.
 
Geeforcer said:
I didn't catch the whole show, but I did see the entire segment - and I saw nothing that would warrant this kind of childish BS.
Where did you catch the entire segment, because if your talking about the link at the top of the page, it is clearly missing some footage (i cant remember how much, since ive already deleted the show).

later,
epic
 
epicstruggle said:
Geeforcer said:
I didn't catch the whole show, but I did see the entire segment - and I saw nothing that would warrant this kind of childish BS.
Where did you catch the entire segment, because if your talking about the link at the top of the page, it is clearly missing some footage (i cant remember how much, since ive already deleted the show).

later,
epic

On CNBC.
 
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