World of Warcraft: Cataclysm

Discussion in 'PC Gaming' started by Kaotik, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. aaronspink

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    Its not "hard", merely tedious. But given that just about everything is handed to you on a platter within the mod interface for WoW and they have no AI, they have little choice. They can't really add a dynamic element to the game and there are no uncertainties anywhere due to every last thing being available via addons. All they are left with is tedium as a means of increasing difficulty.
     
  2. Reznor007

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    If it's not hard, then why has less than 1% of the player base killed Lich King on 25m hard mode even with a 25% hp/dmg/healing increase buff? It's not as if people aren't trying it either.
     
  3. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    You just keep repeating yourself, clearly demonstrating 2 things. You've never actually done any of it, and you don't like WoW. We get that already, you can shut up now.
     
  4. Jedi2016

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    Bingo. You don't like WoW. So WTF are you doing posting in a WoW thread? Why did you even read the thread? You don't like the game? Here's a brilliant solution... don't play it. There, problem solved. Now go away and stop trolling what used to be a normal discussion thread.
     
  5. aaronspink

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    And you have yet to provide any counter examples.
     
  6. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    Lol wut? Talk about being pig-headed, you definitely take the cake in that regard.

    What I said is your arguments aren't just flawed, they're mostly completely bogus except for PvE having instanced fights, which is like, SO WHAT? Any other of the popular MMOs with dungeon fights also have instanced, scripted dungeons. It's part and parcel of the genre you flaming yahoo. As I also mentioned in a previous post, all boss fights of any single-player game you care to mention are also just as rigid in boss behaviors.

    MMOs tend to preclude dynamic worlds due to the fact the pickpocket/wicked nobleman/crazed cultist/evil overlord you kill in a quest must still be around for the next guy who comes along, doing the same quest.

    Since you're obviously an elitist grumpy kids-get-off-my-lawn overgrown pen-and-paper roleplayer, so I suggest you get back to your books and codecs and roll some D10s, there you can have all the interactive dynamics you can handle...

    It's worth noting (although probably wasted on a grouchy grinch like you) that Cataclysm will bring greater interactivity to the world through geometric phasing that is advanced (in scripted fashion of course) through questing.

    All subjective. Your own personal opinions aren't absolute truth, of course.

    Your condescending attitude nonwithstanding, you've not actually demonstrated WoW is either "easy", nor "brain dead". So as previous poster suggested: kindly stop trolling the thread.

    Thank you.
     
  7. cjo

    cjo
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    Any of the players here downed the LK on 25 man yet?

    My guild is stuck at 11/12 in 25-normal, although someone did manage to piggyback on one of the better guilds 25-man LK kills, so we have started 25-man hcs (did marrowgar, gunship, rotface, festergut and blood queen this week).

    I think its a shame they have stripped out the guild talent trees, and dumbed down the archaeology profession, but there still looks like plenty of new and interesting stuff to play with.
     
  8. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Aye, and 11/12 25HC too so working on LK25 HC, not down yet though.
    (On 10man, we've gotten to around 30%'s on LKHC, so last phase before the RP & kill)
     
  9. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    The NDA embargo on the continuing closed beta-test has lifted now, lots of new information has released including preliminary talent trees for all classes, maps and pictures from zones, lots of tradeskill recipes and so on.

    One crazy aspect is the enormous inflation in gear itemlevels. 25-man Lich King on heroic difficulty drops epics at item level 277 if I remember correctly. Many early drops and quest rewards in Cataclysm are north of ilvl 300. Some of the better tradeskill recipes for level 85 sit at a comfortable ilvl 359, which will probably correspond to 1st tier raid drops if past experience holds true... :shock:

    Also, everything has enormous amounts of stamina on it. I've seen a number of items with around 260 stamina... Crazy stuff!
     
  10. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    There's items with 500 stamina :cool:
    But it's not just about ilvl, IIRC ilvl went quite easily up on quest rewards coming from TBC top end raiding gear to wotlk, but it doesn't necessarily make it better gear yet.
     
  11. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    You'll be ditching heroic ICC (ilvl 277 and 284) gear for crafted blues at 85 if not before. The crafted epic 1h weapons are over 400dps (havoc's call off LK is 265dps).

    It's looking like everyone will have ~100k health at level 85 with every piece having 300+ stamina.
     
  12. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    100k life... I wonder how DPS will scale, or PvP fights will be awfully long and tedious, and spellcasters risk running out of mana... :D

    I managed to actually kill two resto druids at the same time the other day on my moonkin. I only have heroic 5man epic gear and badge stuff, so I usually don't fare too well in PvP. I suppose these druids were too busy trying to DPS me instead of healing the other, because once one of them went down the other was toast... Popped starfall, and that was all she wrote lol.

    With 100k life though... Man, we better do at least 10k dps on average or fights against a healer will take forever! :razz: Particulary against druids or priests if you're a class that doesn't have an offensive dispel ability (Disco priest bubbles absorbing 30k+ maybe? they already soak up well over 12k...)

    Then again, well-equipped PvEers in maxed-out gear already do well over 10k against bosses, I don't know how that compares against players. Of course, resilience on PvP gear will throw a wrench in the gears of DPS, but until more information leaks out we're all in the dark.

    I hope Blizzard finally reins in burst though, because several classes can destroy a player with over 20k life in a few seconds right now, typically in no more than the length of a short-cooldown stun ability.

    It will be interesting to see how pallys and enhance shammys will deal with moonkin now that owls gain a persistent AoE silence ability... Moonkin tosses it off on top of himself, only thing the other player can do is leg it, at which point the moonkin can just spam away with his full arsenal. :D There's always bubble + heal of course, so it won't neccessarily have to be an iwin button, but at least it gives owls a fighting chance! Too bad it does pretty much nothing against warriors, and rogues, and probably DKs too. You may not be able to cast gargoyle or deathcoil, but all the various strikes should still work...
     
  13. Jedi2016

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    I've been very curious about the stamina/dps issue since they announced it, and I still haven't seen a good answer.

    We know for a fact the numbers are going way up.. 500dps weapons, 500+stam armor, etc. So we'll have huge health pools and be doing insane damage.

    But, is the change being made across the board? Through all levels, 1-85? Or only from 81-85? And is affecting mobs or just players?

    I've heard some conflicting reports.. one guy said you get large player health pools at low levels, higher than what you'd have now at, say, lv10.

    Another guy said that he aggro'd three mobs at one time and barely survived, but it was at Hyjal, which is a new 80+ area. So clearly, those mobs are tougher than the ones we see nowadays.

    But a blue post just today said that we won't see a drastic change on our lv80 toons right when the expansion hits... we'll be hitting about as hard now as we did before. But once you start leveling 81+ and get some new gear, the numbers will go up "dramatically". This was in response to a question about the removal of Spell Power.. he specifically said that spells and heals will hit for around the same numbers as they do today. Now, this would imply that our pre-lv80 numbers will be around where they are now.. we might have more health, but we'll be doing the same amount of damage. This implies that mobs will have around the same health and armor as they do now.

    The interesting bit here is that, with the extreme jump in power from 80-85, and if old-world (1-80) mobs don't change, we'll be like gods whenever we go to an old-world zone... one-shotting even high-level mobs and elites. Soloing lv80 dungeons. Crazy stuff. Will it really come to that? Or will the change be more spread out, with all of the world going up in health and difficulty to counter us?
     
  14. Dresden

    Dresden Celebrating Mediocrity
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    The closest thing I got to an invite to the beta was a phishing scam in my spam box :(
     
  15. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    Yeah, pretty much. :) I'm hoping to be able to go to some old raids and grind a couple tradeskill recipes I was never able to get my hands on in the past... Most notably, Mongoose enchant off of Moroes. Never saw it drop in the (not all that many) Karazhan runs I did in the past.

    I can solo level 70 dungeons right now without too much trouble on normal difficulty, so that would seem pretty standard fare really. :) Sunwell 5-man is a little tough, but the others I can handle if I don't pull too many mobs at a time. Pre-HoTting ftw. :)

    Some blue poster - I'm not sure who, but it was undoubtedly one of the usual suspects - said the 80-85 journey would see a significant ramp-up in power. You'd feel 'much more powerful' from each level-up, and the new gear certainly indicates that as well.

    Green is indeed the new purple all over again (this wasn't so much the case in cataclysm as it was in burning crusade, where one of the first hord quest chains you could do awarded you a staff with 80 spellpower on it, which matched Benediction/Anathema...)
     
  16. eastmen

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    SO I have a question.

    I never got into the wow hype , played it in beta and thought it was horrible , I thought horizons was better. However ,I'm not going to sit an bash it. People enjoy it and thats fine with me.

    My question however is this. What are you guys so interested in with this new expansion that put this ahead of the other mmorpgs. I'm personaly looking DCU and more so SW TOR.

    My other question is , if your not hot on other mmorpgs, do you think if you weren't invested in wow for so long that you'd be more interested in other mmorpgs then wow if you were goin to just jump in with this expansion ?
     
  17. Reznor007

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    The classic WoW world that people enjoyed refreshed and reworked, new areas in the world, new races/class combos, new spells/mechanics, new pvp content, new dungeons, new raid content, improved graphics(they are putting in a DX11 renderer in beta right now with SM4/5 support). Basically everything WoW fans have enjoyed is getting updates and additions.

    From what I've seen of TOR I just haven't been that interested. I like Star Wars, but since the game is set in a completely different time frame, the only relation is that the people are generic Jedi/Sith, with no interaction with the main characters that people liked from the movies. I also didn't enjoy the old Star Wars MMO(Galaxies?) but that was mainly because it just wasn't a great game.

    The main reason I got into WoW in the first place was because I played all the Warcraft RTS games and enjoyed the story/universe it had. Seeing as the MMO game takes place right after Warcraft3 ends, it picks up the story and continues on with it. I didn't start until early 2006 because I wasn't that interested in a subscription style game, but gave in once my brother got a computer capable of playing it and started(with him also coming straight off War3). I've been playing since that time and still enjoy it to this day.

    Since Cataclysm is effectively WoW 2 and a revamp/addon of everything I've liked so far, I see nothing in the other MMO's worthy of drawing me away.
     
  18. eastmen

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    From my playtime and what I see from others , there is story in wow but its really pushed to the back of the picture so to say.


    TOR interests me because of the full VO and the complete story arc for each class . DCU interests me because it will follow dc characters and have a story line going through that you play in.

    But i can see why you'd be interested in wow with this update now that you've told me whats in it. Any video of dx 11 wow
     
  19. Reznor007

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    There is a bit of video on youtube from the Cata beta showing some new effects, but at first they are just doing it for performance enhancements, with a few new effects here and there. Once things stable out more things can be added.

    But theres tons of story if you read the quests and various text the game has. The questlines in the Wrath of the Lich King content are very good if you follow through on all of them. From the beginning of the pre-Wrath world event(which you can't see now though) to the final fight with the Lich King, there is a full story setting up the events of the fight.
     
  20. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    The story in the oldest bits of WoW wasn't particulary epic. Most of the time while leveling you were either reduced to an errand boy or a pest exterminator ("kill 12 of x because I want them dead and come back to me for a reward" type of quests). Towards the end, things got a little better, you had the Battle for Darrowshire quest chain for example, the Linken quest (which is a bit silly as it's basically a Nintendo/Zelda homage, but still fun), a number of dungeon-centric quest chains and so on.

    But you're right that the story didn't play a large role in oldskool WoW. Things got a little better in Burning Crusade since Blizzard knew more about how to create interesting quests, but other than the introductionary movie, most players would reach 70 without ever learning who Illidan was, or any of his backstory - as they probably didn't all play through the War3 games.

    If you did the Netherwing quests you got a bit more of a feel for him, but still overall story wasn't very prominent.

    In Lich King, Blizzard was fully aware of this problem, and took it to heart and made sure you knew who you were fighting, and why. You get to see the Lich King multiple times through questing, you learn of his history, who he was before he fell from grace and so on. Story is very much at the forefront.

    Even in the starter zones you get to learn more of the game's lore. We find out that Humans are descendants (or essentially mutant offspring) of a race of viking-like beings called Vrykul, and that Gnomes were originally mechanical constructs that served the Titan creators (the immensely powerful god-like entities who re-shaped the planet Azeroth into what it is now - except, the Night Elves blew it up and sunk about half of the original continent underwater, lol...)

    The next tier of zones has the Alliance walk in the past footsteps of Prince Arthas. We get to see how he betrays his own men and the orders of his father, the King, by burning the ships that were to take them back home to Lordaeron, and later, taking up the cursed blade, Frostmourne, which transformed him into the first Death Knight. Later, Arthas, firmly under the command of the Lich King, would murder his own father, sack the capital and set out on a crusade leading the legions of the undead against his own people, until he finally would end up merging completely with the Lich King, the two becoming one and destroying Arthas forever.

    There's also a long story about part of the Horde rebelling and killing major NPCs, a siege on a capital city, learning of an ancient and unfathomably evil Old God entity corrupting the continent and its denizens, and that one of the Titan guardians is now helping this Old God. Later it continues with Troll lore, how they succumb to evil and wickedness by destroying their own future to fight the undead plague. More Titan lore is found in other zones, and a rather long quest chain involving the Lich King's discarded heart and a ghostly little boy who may or may not be Prince Arthas' disembodied conscience, or perhaps an apparition of Yogg-Saron's (the evil god trapped underneath the continent).

    Still with me? :lol:

    So there's a LOT of story and lore in the latest expansion. And with Cataclysm, Blizzard is re-making the original world in the same vein with new quests that aren't just "collect 15 Blood Scalp Troll Ears so I can put them on a string and then give you 35 silver"...

    Blizzard is reportedly going to bring story and lore back to the old world in a big way (if that's the right way to put it, since story and lore wasn't ever really part of it to begin with. ;) In Warcraft, yes, but not in WoW.)

    I'm interested in other MMOs as well, Warhammer and WH40k (which isn't released yet) for example, but I've invested so much in WoW already and I don't have enough time in a day to play every dang MMO out there, so I have to concentrate on one at a time. :)

    Some day WoW will undoubtedly lose its appeal with me and I'll move on, but I'm not quite there yet.

    I believe the DX11 stuff is only on a prototype stage so far and most of it is really buggy/crashy. There's an example video linked earlier in this thread showing off dynamic sunrays, but I don't think that effect requires DX11.

    Maybe Blizzard will decide to support tesselation? That'd be something worth writing home about! :D
     
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