World of Warcraft: Cataclysm

[Kaotik]

until he finally would end up merging completely with the Lich King, the two becoming one and destroying Arthas forever.

[nitpicking]
Actually quite the opposite, Arthas ('s mind) started to grow more and more dominant over the years, and was the clearly dominant one (though naturally not the same guy he was when alive) in the end, wether there still was parts of Ner'zhul's mind left is a question that will probably be left unanswered forever.

 

[eastmen]

Wow thanks for writing that all up Grall. So if I was to say start playing when the expansion comes out , do I play until a certian level before Cataclysm and then after a certian level it strikes ? Or do i sart in this post Cataclysm world ? Would seem to me that I'd miss alot if I started after Cataclysm.

 

[Kaotik]

Wow thanks for writing that all up Grall. So if I was to say start playing when the expansion comes out , do I play until a certian level before Cataclysm and then after a certian level it strikes ? Or do i sart in this post Cataclysm world ? Would seem to me that I'd miss alot if I started after Cataclysm.

It starts post-Cataclysm for all after the expansion is out, but it's a dual-bladed sword on are you missing a lot or not.
Sure, you'll miss the original world of classic world, but you won't miss TBC (Outland) nor WotLK (Northrend).
However, you will get all new leveling experience in the post-Cataclysm world, and if you start before Cataclysm is out, you'll miss out that, then, unless you level one character now, and another after the expansion is out.

 

[Jedi2016]

[nitpicking]
Actually quite the opposite, Arthas ('s mind) started to grow more and more dominant over the years, and was the clearly dominant one (though naturally not the same guy he was when alive) in the end, wether there still was parts of Ner'zhul's mind left is a question that will probably be left unanswered forever.

Depends on what your source is. According to Blizz pre-Wrath, there was no Arthas and there was no Ner'zhul.. there was only the Lich King. A perfect blending of the two to create an entirely new being.

According to the novel Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, you may be correct, considering how you look at it. There's an internal struggle between Arthas and Ner'zhul. However, if you look at it a bit deeper, there are three beings there.. Ner'zhul, Arthas, and the Lich King, with the Lich King being the one that wins, by destroying the final remnants of both of the others.

The only thing in-game that would make me question Blizz's original statement was when Arthas referred to Terenas as "father" right before he died.. and did so as Arthas and not as the Lich King.

And then, of course, there's the question of what happened to Bolvar afterwards.

Anyway.. I'm definitely looking forward to Cataclysm. Two of my characters are basically on hold for now, waiting for the expansion, and I'm gearing up my fresh-80 pally.

 

[Reznor007]

[nitpicking]
Actually quite the opposite, Arthas ('s mind) started to grow more and more dominant over the years, and was the clearly dominant one (though naturally not the same guy he was when alive) in the end, wether there still was parts of Ner'zhul's mind left is a question that will probably be left unanswered forever.

The way I took the end of the LK fight was that when Tirion Fordring shatters Frostmourne with Ashbringer, that the mind of the LK was split back into Arthas and Ner'zhul, with Ner'zhuls spirit left in the helm that Bolvar then wears to become the next LK.

And according to a recent WoW lore post from Blizzard on their forums, the shattered remains of Frostmourne were lost...so that leaves openings for future undead/LK story.

 

[Kaotik]

Depends on what your source is. According to Blizz pre-Wrath, there was no Arthas and there was no Ner'zhul.. there was only the Lich King. A perfect blending of the two to create an entirely new being.

According to the novel Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, you may be correct, considering how you look at it. There's an internal struggle between Arthas and Ner'zhul. However, if you look at it a bit deeper, there are three beings there.. Ner'zhul, Arthas, and the Lich King, with the Lich King being the one that wins, by destroying the final remnants of both of the others.

The only thing in-game that would make me question Blizz's original statement was when Arthas referred to Terenas as "father" right before he died.. and did so as Arthas and not as the Lich King.

And then, of course, there's the question of what happened to Bolvar afterwards.

Anyway.. I'm definitely looking forward to Cataclysm. Two of my characters are basically on hold for now, waiting for the expansion, and I'm gearing up my fresh-80 pally.

I haven't read the novels at all, just few references made to those elsewhere.

In my view, Blizz's reference to "There's just Lich King" is referring to the phase where their spirits were clearly "fused together", neither being dominant as Arthas' spirit was most likely stronger than Ner'zhul thought (as he was clearly dominant mind in the beginning, controlling Arthas through the voice of Frostmourne, and then through both the helmet and Frostmourne). Over time, they worked more or less together, as one, but Arthas grew stronger and less dependant on Frostmourne, which was just as much Ner'zhul as the helmet, possibly even more so in the end as Arthas grew stronger, in fact I see it as quite likely course of events, that Arthas' growing mind forced Ner'zhul out from the helmet and into the Frostmourne alone, rather than being part of both, so "one being", Lich King, was in fact Arthas who had taken over the helmet, and Ner'zhul being now only in Frostmourne together.

In the end, as Arthas refers to Menethil as father gives ultimate proof of the fact that Arthas was the triumphant in the battle of minds.

Bolvar is pure and good, unlike Arthas was, and most likely has some gift from Alexstrasza too (the flames that kept him alive and burning afterwards), he also didn't take the remains of Frostmourne which were vital if not only part of Ner'zhuls spirit, so he should be "safe" from evil, and able to keep Scourge in bay.

His voice changed, but I believe it's only the helmet's effect itself, unless it has a bit of Arthas now in it, but it definately isn't Ner'zhul anymore - and Ner'zhul is now spread in the pieces of Frostmourne, lost who knows where.

 

[Grall]

Actually quite the opposite, Arthas ('s mind) started to grow more and more dominant over the years, and was the clearly dominant one

That's not at all what Blizzard itself states. For example, when you go through the introduction for Halls of Reflection, the ghost of Uther states that Arthas is merely a weak and diminishing voice amongst all the other souls captured by Frostmourne. He's not dominant (or even close to) in any way. He's not even in a position to contend for domination, he's been vanquished. Period.

wether there still was parts of Ner'zhul's mind left is a question that will probably be left unanswered forever.

I believe the official story goes that the first Lich King WAS Ner'zhul, or rather his soul - twisted and tortured into madness by Kil'jaeden - and then imprisoned into that suit of armor which Arthas later put on when the merging occurred.

Arthas' soul was consumed by Frostmourne when he became a deathknight, so when the two merged, Arthas' body would become the host for Ner'zhul's spirit methinks. Both were changed in the joining, but that old orc shaman should still be in there somewhere...

Bolvar's soul was never consumed by Frostmourne, so perhaps he would be able to resist Ner'zhul/the Lich King's influence or even control him. After all, Bolvar was a true hero and man of good, unlike the flawed and morally unsound Prince Arthas. Bolvar's spirit should be much stronger than Arthas' was (who let himself be manipulated into committing atrocities even before taking up Frostmourne...)

 

[Kaotik]

That's not at all what Blizzard itself states. For example, when you go through the introduction for Halls of Reflection, the ghost of Uther states that Arthas is merely a weak and diminishing voice amongst all the other souls captured by Frostmourne. He's not dominant (or even close to) in any way. He's not even in a position to contend for domination, he's been vanquished. Period.

I believe the official story goes that the first Lich King WAS Ner'zhul, or rather his soul - twisted and tortured into madness by Kil'jaeden - and then imprisoned into that suit of armor which Arthas later put on when the merging occurred.

Arthas' soul was consumed by Frostmourne when he became a deathknight, so when the two merged, Arthas' body would become the host for Ner'zhul's spirit methinks. Both were changed in the joining, but that old orc shaman should still be in there somewhere...

Bolvar's soul was never consumed by Frostmourne, so perhaps he would be able to resist Ner'zhul/the Lich King's influence or even control him. After all, Bolvar was a true hero and man of good, unlike the flawed and morally unsound Prince Arthas. Bolvar's spirit should be much stronger than Arthas' was (who let himself be manipulated into committing atrocities even before taking up Frostmourne...)

The official story like stated says they just fused into one, the exact quote from Metzen (who's responsible for the lore) says it like this:

Arthas and Ner'zhul have become a perfect fusion of one being - Arthas' personality and body with Ner'zhul's wisdom, experience, power and EVIL

So the most official statement stays Ner'zhul never "won" or "vanquished" Arthas.
Uther looked into Lich Kings heart, and stated what he saw, only Lich King, but he was still wrong, as the video shows in the end - Arthas was still there.
Also, remember the Fall of the Lich King trailer, where Terenas speaks to his son, not just Lich King.

Then there's the part where novels step in - one has to remember that every novel has to be authorized by Blizzard (aka by Metzen) before they can use Warcraft logos etc.

They are, in general, also considered to be canon, as Metzen states

...yeah, the novels are pretty much considered canon, ahm, the funny thing is that some things are less canon, you know, but we shoot for canon... that's a strage statement... we shoot for canon... but yeah, typically the characters in novels are canon.

Especially considering the last part, this even though appeared in a novel, should be in line with the real situation of current lore:

In a dream state where Arthas sees past, present, and future, presented by Ner'zhul, Arthas murders the child manifestation of his humanity (e.g. love, compassion, and so forth). Delighted at this decision Ner'zhul states "We are one, Arthas. Together we are the Lich King. No more Ner'zhul, no more Arthas -- only this one glorious being." With that Arthas murders Ner'zhul and tells him "No we. No one tells me what to do. I've got everything I need from you -- now the power is mine and mine alone. Now there is only I. I am the Lich King. And I am ready." Ner'zhul is stunned by the betrayal, then disappears.

It is uncertain if this dream state actually results in Arthas destroying Ner'zhul's essence, but it would seem to indicate that Arthas's soul lords over Ner'zhul's.

 

[Malo]

I don't think I've ever seen a thread grow as fast in any forum ever than this one:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25712374700&sid=1&pageNo=1

 

[AlphaWolf]

I don't think I've ever seen a thread grow as fast in any forum ever than this one:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25712374700&sid=1&pageNo=1

26,000 posts in 24 hours? It'd probably be quite a bit bigger but they were having a lot of issues due to large amount of traffic they were getting over this issue.

I'm really very concerned over this whole RealID thing. Their forums were a great way to resolve in game issues (I don't consider sifting through a few posts from some window licking idiots to get to the quality a big issue) and they are going to become a barren wasteland. Mostly all that will be left is the window lickers.

I'm unsure how they will reconcile this new policy with privacy laws in various countries (such as Canada). And there's already been an issue with some addon's exposing peoples RealID in game.

I won't be touching any blizzard product in the future and my wow account has been canceled.

 

[Malo]

Yeah it's very scary and I'm considering just closing my account and my daughters because of it.

 

[homerdog]

Are we sure this is not a joke?

 

[Malo]

It's July, not April

 

[AlphaWolf]

Blizzard claims the change was made to reduce trolling, however they signed an agreement with facebook in may. I don't really believe in coincidence.

 

[Grall]

I thought making your b.net login the same as your email address a super bad idea from both a security and privacy standpoint, because if you get hacked, hackers won't just get hold of your WoW account, they'll get your email address too so they can spam it, or worse, hack it also.

Now making RealID show your actual name is also a bad idea. I personally don't care, because my only RealID friend is an old highschool buddy of mine, and he already knows my name of course. The official forums I hardly ever visit anyway, so if they go real names there it won't change much for me either. The plugin issue should be patchable/preventable quite easily also.

It's interesting though that Blizzard's committed two recent and relatively serious security/privacy gaffes in a relatively short amount of time, when they're usually so careful and thoughtful about most everything. Is that a sign the hubris that often afflicts very successful companies has finally struck them as well? The thinking that "we're so big we can't do anything wrong!" is usually very very dangerous, it wrecked Atari, it didn't wreck Nintendo but it did knock them off the console throne. It later took a big chunk out of Sony as well and forced Ken Kutaragi to resign. Nobody's safe, it seems.

 

[Kaotik]

You can switch your battle.net login/e-mail address to anything you want, though, so you could create new address you'll only use for battle.net related things.

 

[Grall]

Oh and in other unrelated news, Blizzard has totally reworked the talent trees and tightened up the definitions of class specializations so that signature abilities are awarded right at level ten along with the first talent point. Instead of receiving 76 points in Cataclysm, we'll only get about 41 instead, or roughly one every two levels. The levels we don't get a point we'll get a new ability instead.

Correspondingly, talent trees are now much smaller; 7 tiers instead of 11. This is because even with the reworking of the trees they did earlier this year (and was revealed some weeks ago now through leaks and then officially through fansites), the changes weren't as dramatic as Blizzard had suggested during Blizzcon. The devs simply couldn't rework the trees as much as they wanted when there were so many tiers to each tree to fill up.

Thus this latest reworking of the system. Now, upon reaching 10 you'll get to pick your primary talent tree which will define your character from then onwards. Along with this choice, you'll get some passive bonuses - which was previously part of the 'mastery' system. These bonuses no longer scale with the number of talent points spent in a tree; since they're percentages they scale naturally with the character. You're also awarded a signature ability for the talent spec you've chosen. For example, discipline priests receive Penance, enhancement shamen receive Lava Lash and retribution pallies receive Divine Storm (!). This is to allow your retpally to feel like a retpally right from the start, so you don't have to slog through dozens of boring levels before you get to pick up your main tools from deep within the talent tree.

Additionally, whatever tree is picked you'll be locked into that for the next 30 points (for a total of 31), which will be reached at level 70. After that, additional talent points will be free to spend elsewhere.

The goal was to finally get rid of talents that did nothing except add x% more damage or healing, or were complicated, or problematic to tune, or just unpopular and bad in design. Talents that change the way you play your character, change spell rotations and so on, those have been kept.

 

[Grall]

you could create new address you'll only use for battle.net related things.

That's not a solution to a bad design decision. Just a bad workaround; it creates a need for yet another email address that then must be maintained. I don't know about you, but I have too fucking many addresses already.

 

[Malo]

I thought making your b.net login the same as your email address a super bad idea from both a security and privacy standpoint, because if you get hacked, hackers won't just get hold of your WoW account, they'll get your email address too so they can spam it, or worse, hack it also.

Now making RealID show your actual name is also a bad idea. I personally don't care, because my only RealID friend is an old highschool buddy of mine, and he already knows my name of course. The official forums I hardly ever visit anyway, so if they go real names there it won't change much for me either. The plugin issue should be patchable/preventable quite easily also.

You're assuming that they will stop there at integrating RealID. As they've stated several times, they have big long-term plans for RealID and integrating with everything they do, as well as other 3rd party services. Soon you probably won't be able to do anything in any product Blizzard makes, whether in-game or out, without your details being displayed.

 

[Kaotik]

That's not a solution to a bad design decision. Just a bad workaround; it creates a need for yet another email address that then must be maintained. I don't know about you, but I have too fucking many addresses already.

I have 5 addresses I follow normally (3 coming to my outlook straight on same window, work exchange coming straight to phone, one normal address coming straight to phone) and 1 that I check every now and then, it's a bit many perhaps, but if I wished, I could easily just put redirecting services on for 4 of them at least, with automatic deletion of serverside mail, so there's no need for maintenance