Wireless keyboard and lag (aka "fact or fiction?")

[PARANOiA]

I bought the Logitech MX3100 keyboard and mouse pack a few months ago and love it. It actually gave me better results at CS/DoD over my Intellimouse (corded) due to precision and "comfort" making me shoot better.

Recently however it's been giving me headaches. Funnily enough, it's the keyboard and not the mouse that has been troubling me. I say "funnily enough" because forums all over the internet are chock full of "wireless is sucky" debates relating to gaming mice. But I've never heard about wireless keyboards having problems.

My most significant trouble comes when playing World of Warcraft. The two main issues I have are:

• When I'm running forward my character stops every now and then, and I have to lift my fingers off the keyboard and push "forward" again. This is a major PITA when running from monsters since they catch you and has caused me to die more than a couple of times.
• Sometimes the opposite happens, in that when I release a key, like back, rotate left or rotate right, my character will keep walking/the camera will keep panning after I've released the key. The really odd thing is, if I see my character walking backwards, for example, and I walk forwards to "counter" this effect so I don't walk backwards off a cliff, he'll keep walking backwards like he's moonwalking until he gets his "extra" steps in. Same with the rotating camera... it'll spin in circles with me trying to point where I want before I just have to take my hands off the keyboard, let my character do a 360, or walk backwards, and then point where I really want him to go. This has caused me to wander off cliffs on occasion

So... first question, am I alone? Does this happen to anyone else?

Second question, is this likely a keyboard issue? Does this inherently happen with wireless technology or is it my keyboard (lx/mx700)? Is it battery troubles? This would surpise me since I have replaced them twice in the last couple of weeks "just in case", and Logitech's software says my battery levels are fine. Could it be a driver issue? I've got the latest drivers.

Thirdly, could this be at all related to lag, as in "ping" lag and internet speed? Maybe my commands aren't hitting the server quickly so I keep walking, for example. Though this doesn't really make sense since I imagine I update the server where I am, rather than the server keeps moving me until it tells me where I am.

Lastly, could this be a software issue unique to WoW? I haven't seen anyone else complaining about this, and I notice when using other software such as Word, I notice the occasional characters being "dropped" from my input.

Any assistance would be appeciated!

 

[Sxotty]

I have mx500 cordless and it has lag for sure, but it is on a htpc so
I don't care.

 

[Ali]

I have the (I think) Logitech LX900 bluetooth keyboard and mouse. The only lag I notice is using the scroll wheel on the keyboard. Everything else is 100% the same as a corded keyboard.

I dont have WoW, but the wife plays similar games, and never complains. She would if she had problems as well.

You could try using different drivers for the keyboard. Logitech seems to change them every now and again.

Ali

 

[wireframe]

PARANOiA,

Try this test:

1. Open a text editing program (Word, WordPad, NotePad, etc) and create a blank document.

2. Choose a letter on your keyboard and depress it until the letter stops repeating on your screen.

3. Hit enter a few times or create a new document (but don't get rid of the first one).

4. Depress the key or another key again until it stops repeating.

5. Compare the length of the two strings of letters to see if they are equal length.

In other words, test to see if this cut-off is precise or if it really is random.

This assumes that this problem always exists, but you only notice it those times when you keep a certain key depressed for extended periods of time.

My theory: This is a battery saving feature built into the keyboard to prevent it draining the battery when a key is left depressed by mistake. For example, you may have left a book or magazine on the keyboard and walked away not realizing this, or maybe even gone to sleep. Normally this would just result in a mess of repeated key strokes, but with a wireless keyboard it would also drain the battery.

I doubt lag would cause this, but who knows?

 

[PARANOiA]

Well I think I found out what was going on.

I tried the test recommended above and couldn't get the problem to occur again. So I booted WoW and sure enough I had the same issues. Then I realised with a little testing that the problem only occurred when using the KB *and* mouse at the same time. There you go!

So I had a quick look and I'd only connected the receiver via USB, rather than both USB and Serial. After a quick unplug -> replug it looks like it's gone. Thanks to the replies for getting my noodle spinning!

 

[IgnorancePersonified]

I don't get lag on my mx700 wireless keyboard combo.

 

[Guden Oden]

My theory: This is a battery saving feature built into the keyboard to prevent it draining the battery when a key is left depressed by mistake.

On the Amiga, the keyboard controller sends one scancode for keydown events and another for keyup. There is no activity inbetween; you could hold a key for fifty years and not have any additional activity across the keyboard interface. Pretty sure PC keyboards work the same...

And Paranoia: why not bind autorun to a mousebutton? I have it on browse forward, so I won't have to press forwards all the time when moving/pursuing something. When I want to stop, I press both LMB and RMB. Also, why rotate using the keyboard? That's weird and clumsy when RMB pressed lets you spin around quickly and precisely.

 

[wireframe]

On the Amiga, the keyboard controller sends one scancode for keydown events and another for keyup. There is no activity inbetween; you could hold a key for fifty years and not have any additional activity across the keyboard interface. Pretty sure PC keyboards work the same...

Ahh, good point. That makes a whole lot of sense. That would also explain why he had the reverse problem as well ("key release" not being detected/sent).

 

[bouy]

I have the MS Keyboard Elite for Bluetooth as well as the Intellimouse for Bluetooth and I don't notice lag most of the time but when I'm playing AOE3 the game would slow down a bit then speed up to normal.

 

[Snyder]

It's definitely not inherent to wireless keyboards - as my (usually, see later) completely lag- and stutter-free 3 year old Logitech Wireless Keyboard here strongly confirms.

One thing I wonder:
It's just a shot in the dark, but - have you tried to place the receiver somewhere else? I had a similar problem like you a few times, and it always was after I had moved the receiver - apparently to some suboptimal position. Moving it, most times for only a few cm, always solved the problem.

 

[PARANOiA]

And Paranoia: why not bind autorun to a mousebutton? I have it on browse forward, so I won't have to press forwards all the time when moving/pursuing something. When I want to stop, I press both LMB and RMB. Also, why rotate using the keyboard? That's weird and clumsy when RMB pressed lets you spin around quickly and precisely.

Guden, thank you so much! Autorun is by default bound to MB4, but I tried clicking every button on my mouse, saw it did nothing, then used the keyboard as decribed above. After your post, I did some hunting on Google, and discovered that by default Logitech has "custom commands" on your mouse buttons. Eg., instead of letting Windows determine that MB4 is "Back" in your browser, it has its own implementation of "Back", which it sets in Setpoint (Logitech's software). Same goes for "Forward". The drawback of this is because of this, I couldn't use these mouse buttons in games.

By turning these buttons to "Generic Buttons", they now work in browser and in game. So now I've got my additional back and forward buttons bound. Middle-click is now bear form, back is autorun, forward is cat form (for my Druid obviously).

The big plus is I can now click autorun, and use my other hand to do stuff like casting spells etc while moving!

I haven't figured out how to use the other buttons - by default, Logitech has the "application switcher" associated with the one between back and forth, plus the wheel has a left-right scroll, and "super scroll" above and below the wheel. If anyone knows how to bind these please let me know.

And if I didn't make it clear in my earlier post, I've resolved the lag issue. Thanks to all.

 

[DoomingDarkness]

I have the exact same problem. I really only noticed it in WoW, but once I started testing it out it happens in other apps. The odd thing is, it doesn't occur all the time. I just assembled a new computer and its only about 3 weeks old. So, for about the first few days it was fine. Then, for several days i had that "lag"...I thought it was just lag in WoW, since it went away again for about 1 week. Now, it is happening again. I haven't changed a thing on my computer. I just turned it on and off. There was a power outage recently though.

Anyway, it seems to be happening regardless if I use both plugs in the PS/2 ports or one in PS/2 and the other in USB. I installed new drivers. Reconnected a dozen times, the channel even changed.

I simply cannot use the mouse and keyboard at the same time at this moment.

I am fairly pissed off that there was absolutely no manual with the MX3100 combo. I don't even know what the little pictures on the mouse charger mean. Nothing on the website either.

I used to like Logitech products. Now I doubt I will ever buy one again.

Is your solution still working for you?

 

[DoomingDarkness]

HA!

I just re-read this thread and tried Snyders suggestion. The damn receiver was too close!! I moved it a further back on my desk and voila...problem gone. I moved it close again, problem re-appeared. Science at work.


Thanks for solving my problem!

Cheers.

 

[vizy93]

Hey guys, this is mainly to parania, who started thsi thread a couple years back, but i have the same exact problem with the Mx3200 keyboard/ mouse set. For me it is only the Keyboard, and it does that crap in Left 4 Dead. like all the moonwalking and following commands i never gave.

Paranoia, can you elaborate on the fix please? I would PM you, but i don't have enough posts. I'm going to try stryders fix right now.


Thanks

 

[Davros]

On the Amiga, the keyboard controller sends one scancode for keydown events and another for keyup. There is no activity inbetween; you could hold a key for fifty years and not have any additional activity across the keyboard interface. Pretty sure PC keyboards work the same...

no pc keyboards have a scanrate some bios's let you alter it

Typematic Delay: The "repeat delay" parameter for the Typematic feature built into many BIOSes. The value is usually specified in milliseconds.
Typematic Rate: The "repeat rate" parameter for the Typematic feature built into many system BIOSes. Note that unlike the weird nonsense with odd formulas associated with the MODE command in DOS, this is typically a more normal setting of characters per second.

 

[vizy93]

Hey guys, this is mainly to parania, who started thsi thread a couple years back, but i have the same exact problem with the Mx3200 keyboard/ mouse set. For me it is only the Keyboard, and it does that crap in Left 4 Dead. like all the moonwalking and following commands i never gave.

Paranoia, can you elaborate on the fix please? I would PM you, but i don't have enough posts. I'm going to try stryders fix right now.


Thanks

stryder's fix did not work. Paranoia can you please respond?

Or if someone that does have enough posts to pm, please direct para toward this thread,


thanks

 

[Davros]

Pm'd him for ya vizy93...

 

[PARANOiA]

Heya

I ended up fixing this by using the PS2 attachment that came attached to the USB cable. Plugging both USB (in the Y-cable) and the PS2 cord seemed to stop all of the keyboard woes I was having. It seemed that having only USB connected to the received was causing the issue.

Edit: a poor image (can't really find one on the net after a two minute Google) came up with http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/logitech_ mx3100/03.jpg
See how there's a PS2 plug? That should have a USB plug on it as well. Plug both in.

Cheers

 

[_xxx_]

I had several different Logitech wireless keyboards and mice which were all leggy as hell, the bluetooth ones being far worse than the regular wireless even at 1-2 fet distance to the receiver. I RMA'd the last set three times directly with Logitech and despite their "corections" (new firmware and a redesigned receiver) it still sucked.

That's where I moved on to Microsoft and I've been happy ever since. Worlds apart.

 

[Sxotty]

It might be a battery saving issue as well.

Say you accidently set something on the keyboard then it will evenetually quit sending signal to save battery, Likewise if you hold down forward forever it might do that.