Will revolution be released last?

[PC-Engine]

Holiday season, is when you sell the most, common sense really.

Right. So every other factor to consider is entirely foolish. All consoles entirely doomed for considering any other dates, and their business managers should be eaten by sharks.

What other factors? PS3 is releasing in March of 06 and/or Fall of 06. Why would Nintendo release Revolution in Summer of 06?

Releasing Revolution in Fall of 06 means 65nm and HD DVD is possible not to mention more development time for software. All of that in addition to holiday season buying frenzy. PS3 having a 6 month headstart makes little difference.

 

[London Geezer]

PCEngine, did i ever tell u, u should be a lawyer. I mean, spending a page arguing whether it's a Good Thing that maybe Revolution should be released in Fall cause a Summer release is out of this world, when we know NOTHING about Nintendo's plans, or Sony's for that matter, that's just class.

 

[cybamerc]

Is that all? well, kudos to them to have had a new idea in the last 20 years. :|

"successful franchises", "last few years"...

 

[London Geezer]

Is that all? well, kudos to them to have had a new idea in the last 20 years. :|

"successful franchises", "last few years"...

"rethoric", "excuses".

 

[wazoo]

Nintendo has no problem of having multiple times the same franchised games on the same platform as long as each game is in a different genre.

For Sony, or many publishers as well, milking relies on having the same (albeit slightly updated) game released 3 or 4 times for the same platform

- Well, Mario Sunshine was basically just "a slightly updated" version of Mario64 on GC.
- Mario Kart on GC is just "a slightly updated" Mario Kart

Ask EA to release their franchise game only once by platform and will will compare what "milking" is. Between Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine, we got 6 years and 1 generational jump, same for Mario Kart. Hardly a "milking" by industry standards.

- Zelda Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask was just "same albeit slightly updated game"

Very different gameplay, one is based on a long epic quest, the other is a collection of timed subquests. The argument is much truer considering OOT and Wind Waker, but still you can argue that this is not the same platform.

- Pikmin II is just a slightly updated game of Pikmin.
- Metroid 2 (or whatwasit?) was just a slightly updated game of Metroid Prime
.....

right here. And that is clear, considering that nintendo hardly use "numbering" in its game names (Pikmin 2 does), that may be the sign of changing times in Nintendo too.

My point was that the defintion of "milking" for Nintendo is
- every generation, you are allowed to get a new episode of every serie, which may end up to a 6 year long wait between two episodes
- every new genre can be covered bu using an old franchise as long as the gameplay is different

 

[London Geezer]

Pika.
Pika.


Pika. Chuuu!

 

[Kalin]

Pika.
Pika.


Pika. Chuuu!

Metroid Prime, The Wind Waker, The Minish Cap, Metroid Fusion, from the top of my head.. You're being a little too harsh on Nintendo, regarding the way they "milk" franchises. I would be very very glad to see more often that type of "milking".

 

[Magnum PI]

- Well, Mario Sunshine was basically just "a slightly updated" version of Mario64 on GC.
- Mario Kart on GC is just "a slightly updated" Mario Kart
- Zelda Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask was just "same albeit slightly updated game"
- Zelda Wind Waker, same game mechanisms as in OOT with just updated graphics and story.
- Pikmin II is just a slightly updated game of Pikmin.
- Metroid 2 (or whatwasit?) was just a slightly updated game of Metroid Prime
.....

you may want to reconsider what you call "slighty" updated..
when you have whole new levels, with whole new challenges, how can you consider this a slight update ?

mario sunshine has different game mechanics and totally new levels..
metroid 2 have totally new levels..
idem for zelda..

if these iterations could be considered slight update", so every sequel are slight updates..

some series could more qualify for your claim:
super smash bros series
pokemon
mario party

anyway which editors is not guilty of "milking" its franchises ? as long as a franchise is successful, it is milked... you can reproach nintendo to having created strong and successful franchises.

what's so wrong with sequels ? if they are made it's because we gamers buy them.. and why do we buy them, because we want them..

 

[London Geezer]

Pika.
Pika.


Pika. Chuuu!

Metroid Prime, The Wind Waker, The Minish Cap, Metroid Fusion, from the to of my head.. You're being a little too harsh on Nintendo, regarding the way they "milk" franchises. I would be very very glad to see more often that type of "milking".

I'm not being harder than anyone else talking about other companies.

 

[Kolgar]

I agree with Shifty Geezer. I wouldn't mind Nintendo's incessant sequels to Mario and Zelda so much if only there were enough OTHER characters and genres represented on their platforms.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Nintendo DOESN'T "milk" its franchises any more than anybody else. It still SEEMS that they do, because Nintendo's platforms are so heavily reliant on first-party Nintendo titles.

More to the point, Nintendo LACKS the third-party support of other consoles - so it gives the perception that all Nintendo has to offer is Mario and Zelda and Pokemon and Pikmin.

What's the result? You can't even hear the word "Nintendo" without thinking "Mario." In marketing terms, this is called the "Law of Sacrifice." Which states that sometimes to get a share of the market, you have to sacrifice a bigger portion of the market.

i.e., Nintendo's going after kids with Mario and Co. at the exclusion of adults and other people who prefer more mature types of games. Ultimately, what they're doing is relegating themselves to a niche market. Or painting themselves into a corner, whichever you prefer.

 

[London Geezer]

- Well, Mario Sunshine was basically just "a slightly updated" version of Mario64 on GC.
- Mario Kart on GC is just "a slightly updated" Mario Kart
- Zelda Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask was just "same albeit slightly updated game"
- Zelda Wind Waker, same game mechanisms as in OOT with just updated graphics and story.
- Pikmin II is just a slightly updated game of Pikmin.
- Metroid 2 (or whatwasit?) was just a slightly updated game of Metroid Prime
.....

you may want to reconsider what you call "slighty" updated..
when you have whole new levels, with whole new challenges, how can you consider this a slight update ?

mario sunshine has different game mechanics and totally new levels..
metroid 2 have totally new levels..
idem for zelda..

if these iterations could be considered slight update", so every sequel are slight updates..

some series could more qualify for your claim:
super smash bros series
pokemon
mario party

anyway which editors is not guilty of "milking" its franchises ? as long as a franchise is successful, it is milked... you can reproach nintendo to having created strong and successful franchises.

what's so wrong with sequels ? if they are made it's because we gamers buy them.. and why do we buy them, because we want them..

Errr... "more levels" IS a slight update, i'm sorry. Any "more of the same" is a slight update, if it's an update at all!!

Going from GTA2 to GTA3 was a total revolution, total update.

Going from GTA3 to GTA:Vice City was an update. Not slight, but it was just an update.

Going from Jak1 to Jak2 was a big update, as the gameplay was totally different, from Jak2 to Jak3 was (arguably) a slight update. Some gameplay elements were evolved, the levels were all different, but it was just "more of the same".

Same can be said about the vast majority of sequels on all platforms ever made.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Let's not bring 3. party titles into the discussion. It's a pretty bad example anyhow since BGA is also out for GameCube.

Yeah i'm not sure how BGDA made it to the thread, but i think the guy meant that there are just not enough titles liek that on GC, which is a problem with the limited library of the platform, another problem altogether.

The limited library is part of the same problem. Yes DA was released on all three platforms. It was an independant game (on PS2 first, with conversions). Sony developed it's own IP from the idea, getting Snowblind Studios to write CON. DnD:H was to appear on PS2 and XB, but became XB exclusive. MS also 'developed' Dungeon Siege. The genre 'died' on GC. There's a lack of third party support, so games for GC are basically Nintendo games. Nintendo don't write anything without using one of their tried and tested franchises. As such, the only way you'll see hack-n-slash on GC is if Nintendo write a Mario Dungeon Crawler. That won't happen as it doesn't fit into the Nintendo universe, so the genre won't exist on GC.

You won't see Nintendo creating their own EQ/DnD universe, populated with NEW, ORIGINAL characters, if instead they can recycle existing Zelda or Mario characters.

I'm sure everyone would be happy to see a completely NEW character from Nintendo that has nothing to do with the Mario or Zelda universes, it would certainly make them look like they're moving on.

but "everyone" will not buy it, that is the main problem of Nintendo. You constantly hear about need of new IP's, but those who sell are the same Zelda/Mario year after year.

That's the problem with Nintendo. Their audience is now Nintendo fans, fans of Mario and Zelda, who always buy those games. Nintendo cannot attract more customers outsidfe of those franchises. They cannot attract dungeon crawler fans because the Nintendo universe can't accomodate it. They can't attract street racer fans because the Nintendo universe can't accomodate it.

I've no problem with using existing ideas, or building up a custom 'universe'. Look at how many Star Wars games there are using the same characters and universe! But Nintendo are showing an unwillingness to create new characters and universes better suited to different Genres. Even creating a sports game they can't leave out their existing IPs. Granted they see themselves as a niche player. They won't go head to head with EA for sports games. But as the third party support for GC is so slim by comparison to their competition, and the first party titles are so big, Nintendo's reliance on existing IPs keeps the same gamers and as such alienates other customers. As someone who likes dungeon crawlers and only cares so much for the Mario universe (Mario Kart was great, but I'm bored of seeing the same plumber!) there's no point in me getting a GC. If Nintendo led the way, inventing a new IP to support a new dungeon crawler, they'd have more chance. In essence Nintendo have created a subsection of the market that only they can appeal to. this keeps them afloat, but also keeps them from reaching out to new users, something their going on about very strongly nowadays.

 

[London Geezer]

Oh you don't need to tell me!

 

[Kalin]

Part true, part false. Nintendo DOES produce new franchises and characters, including sports, horror, strategy, FPS, and other genres. And they even turn out to be quite an enjoyable experience. They just don't get the same public attention as the existing ones.

Why on earth am I the one to defend Nintendo, when I don't even like Mario?

 

[blakjedi]

Frankly, so what if Nintendo create their own franchises, rather than invest in promising studios and bring them and their titles onboard. The end user doesn't care (rabid fanbois aside). All that matters is where the killer games are, and how well this fact is promoted. The larger the developer base, the better your chances of finding such a killer app.

Speaking of which, the new Zelda looks great. If Nintendo had turned this out early in the GC's lifespan, like they should instead of Wind Waker, perhaps Nintendo would have had a system shifting title to compare to the likes of the "bought in" Halo, and "limited exclusivity" GTA3 / Vice City / San Andreas.

having played through WindwAKER, I must say that it is an INCREDIBLE game. The art style actually adds to the game... it was the magazines that lamented the artwork that caused fair sales... The graphics in WW even though cel shaded are more consisten and higher quality from and art point of view than say GTA...

The next Zelda does look impressive though...

 

[aaronspink]

MS didn't create Halo. They bought the company who created it.

You do know that there were people who worked on Halo that weren't originally part of Bungie right?

Aaron Spink
speaking for myself inc.

 

[jvd]

that guy put the eyetoy down for inovation but didn't put down the power pad , power glove and that robot from the nes ? How about the rumble pack which came out first on the n64 , the anlog thumb stick , touch pads in games ?

 

[London Geezer]

that guy put the eyetoy down for inovation but didn't put down the power pad , power glove and that robot from the nes ? How about the rumble pack which came out first on the n64 , the anlog thumb stick , touch pads in games ?

How about something you can like.. attach to your tv and like... play games on it? Like... videogames innit!

 

[Magnum PI]

Errr... "more levels" IS a slight update, i'm sorry. Any "more of the same" is a slight update, if it's an update at all!!

fifa 2004 is an update to fifa 2003.
the same thing with the new licensees, with some tweaks..
THAT is more of the same, even when the sequel is on a new plateform, nothing but iterative, no new content.

i could'nt consider a action-adventure game with entirely new story and levels => new content, an "update", even when using the same engine. it's a sequel, not an update.
(were all quake-based games updates to quake ?)

talk about mario party, mario kart, super smash bros.. these are updates.

anyway, we just arguing about the meaning of "update", and as english is your primary language (and not mine), i guess you're right and i'm wrong..

 

[cthellis42]

What other factors? PS3 is releasing in March of 06 and/or Fall of 06. Why would Nintendo release Revolution in Summer of 06?

Why on earth is the PS3 releasing March of 2006? Holiday season, is when you sell the most, common sense really.


...duh.