WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?

[Beafy]

Dont you think that the first 6M console will be bought by hardcore gamers?

The way Nintendo is marketing it, I don't believe so. Sure, you will have lots of Nintendo-f*nboys in this 6M, but after the phenomenon known as Nintendo DS, Wii should have some mindshare amongst normal people -- at least in Japan.
But like I said: I generally agree that the number of games might lead to somewhat disappointing sales-number (not in total, but for each individual game).

Indeed but I think it is mostly because of the low sucess of the console, plus just very few had that honor (IIRC MP and SM:S didnt had it), very late (it has just some good time after Pikmin 2 release that Pik got its low price) and the price cut hadnt been as big as the XB/PS2 versions. I fear that it a bigger and more constant flow of growing userbase they will not do this again.

Yes, both MP and SMS had Player's Choice editions.

I mean LZ:WW (and many didnt like the Cel shading) sold 4,3M LZ:OT sold more than 7M, SM:S (also didnt had the best reviewns) sold 5,5M, SSB:S sold 6M+ (launch game) and GC had never been as popular as Wii or the games as interesting (not necessarely good) as this ones.

Keep in mind that neither MP3 nor Mario nor SMB:B will be out this year, probably not even before march (the date Nintendo wants to ship 6M).

Personally I think there will be ~5 games very popular games and a lot of bad sellers ones: 2-3 N games + RS + Madden and one more popular.

In fact when they talked about the 6M consoles they said that expected ~18M games sold in the same time, if LZ=2M (games sold) and SM:G=2M, MP3=2M, SMB:B=2M, RS=2M (most of those are very conservative numbers, probably you could) you already have more than 1/2 of the games sold and just talked about less than 1/6 of the games (everyone directely related to Nintendo).

I find really hard to see that most of the games will sell well enought.

Of course you have a couple really hot selling games - (Rayman, Red Steel, Zelda, perhaps Monkeyball...) and lots of mediocre ones. But really, what do developers expect? If they produce non-distinct shovelware (and several of the 40 titles look like it) they won't sell very well of course.

 

[ban25]

This may have been posted already, but they are obviously trying to reduce costs as much as possible:

"Final Wii specs lack DVD playback"
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6157685.html

 

[iNoV]

This may have been posted already, but they are obviously trying to reduce costs as much as possible:

"Final Wii specs lack DVD playback"
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6157685.html

Does that mean that the media format isnt DVD?? i mean that's the only way this makes any sense

 

[Beafy]

For DVD playback you have to pay licensing fees to various groups holding trademarks and patents. Beginning of the year that was about 15$ IIRC, though it might have become somewhat cheaper since the introduction of HD.

For the people who ask how some Chinese manufacturers can then sell DVD players for less than 40$... Easy: They don't pay and implement the codecs anyway.

 

[fearsomepirate]

No, it means they didn't feel like paying licensing costs at a time when most people have DVD players, cheap ones can be had for ~$45, and thus few people are buying a console because they want a DVD player. When DVD players were >$200, this mattered.

 

[StefanS]

Does that mean that the media format isnt DVD?? i mean that's the only way this makes any sense

It's a proprietary format, which offers exactly the size of DVD.

 

[Corwin_B]

The way Nintendo is marketing it, I don't believe so. Sure, you will have lots of Nintendo-f*nboys in this 6M, but after the phenomenon known as Nintendo DS, Wii should have some mindshare amongst normal people -- at least in Japan.
But like I said: I generally agree that the number of games might lead to somewhat disappointing sales-number (not in total, but for each individual game).

"Normal" people may be interested in the Wii, but it's mostly hardcore gamers that will preorder and queue for the first millions (although the waiting queues for DS Lites in Japan have been... interesting as far as length and composition are concerned).

Keep in mind that neither MP3 nor Mario nor SMB:B will be out this year, probably not even before march (the date Nintendo wants to ship 6M).

I think MP3 not shipping this year is for 2 reasons : one is to implement online multiplayer (like MP Hunters on the DS was delayed), the second one being to let Red Steel shine as the first FPS on the system (let's hope Ubi implement "expert" controls in RS like Retro did).

Of course you have a couple really hot selling games - (Rayman, Red Steel, Zelda, perhaps Monkeyball...) and lots of mediocre ones. But really, what do developers expect? If they produce non-distinct shovelware (and several of the 40 titles look like it) they won't sell very well of course.

Many publishers are looking for a quick buck, just like for many other launches. It's even worse in the case of a console where it will be common practice to recycle old NGC engines and assets ported from PS2. Sadly, there are a couple interesting games that will likely tank, like Elebits (poor graphics, great gameplay ideas). Madden Wii could also sell quite well, I think.

 

[iNoV]

No, it means they didn't feel like paying licensing costs at a time when most people have DVD players, cheap ones can be had for ~$45, and thus few people are buying a console because they want a DVD player. When DVD players were >$200, this mattered.

But that's what the dongle was for wasn't it? I thought the dongle was the compromise in the scenario of them both offering DVD and not forcing consumers to pay for it if they dont wan't it. Having already established that i dont see how they can be avoiding costs unless the DVD hardware is not present in the machine.

What i mean tby my earlier question was that them totally not supporting DVD only makes sense if all the appropriate hardware is not present in there if that makes sense.

 

[fearsomepirate]

I remember reading that there's some rather largish flat cost you have to pay the DVD consortium and others (codec owners mainly) if you want to include DVD playback, which is in addition to the per-unit cost. And there's also a fixed startup cost for manufacturing a new widget as far as reconfiguring factories, shelf space, etc. They may have decided unit sales would be too low to justify the initial cost.

I highly doubt they've removed the ability to read 12cm discs,. That would be idiotic, and we would have heard about it from angry publishers. And remember Gamecube discs were already mini-DVDs in terms of data density.

 

[see colon]

What i mean tby my earlier question was that them totally not supporting DVD only makes sense if all the appropriate hardware is not present in there if that makes sense.

or it could mean they don't want to give any money to the competition (sony holds some patents for DVD players) when most people already have a DVD player anyway, or can buy players for about what they would have to charge for an add on. i think it's more politicaly motivated than hardware motivated to exclude dvd playback, and i really don't think there is much of a call for DVD playback in a console anyway nowadays.

on the subject of video playback, in the pictures chanel they show playback of video files. anyone have any idea what formats will be supported?

 

[Fox5]

No, it means they didn't feel like paying licensing costs at a time when most people have DVD players, cheap ones can be had for ~$45, and thus few people are buying a console because they want a DVD player. When DVD players were >$200, this mattered.

Considering Nintendo is seemingly pushing the Wii as a convergence device, it would make sense to have it play DVDs as well. Honestly, the hardware is capable, just sell the software pack as a downloadable option for Wii points.

 

[Magnum PI]

What i mean tby my earlier question was that them totally not supporting DVD only makes sense if all the appropriate hardware is not present in there if that makes sense.

if they include a standard DVD drive maybe it could make piracy more easy

 

[see colon]

if they include a standard DVD drive maybe it could make piracy more easy

i don't think there's any real exclusive technology in the drive's hardware, but a data format that make the games dificult to copy. i'd guess they are using off the shelf DVD drives with custom firmware.

 

[mkillio]

I'm not sure if this has already been posted but IGN wrote tonight that Hollywood is "243 MHz ATI "Hollywood" GPU" with 24MBs "main" 1T-SRAM 64MBs other 1T-SRAM and 3MBs texture memory on GPU.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/733/733464p1.html

 

[swaaye]

Well you know what else is amazing? That if it's just a shrunk Flipper that they couldn't quadruple the clock on the thing. It must just be super tiny, unless they have added things to it. But there hasn't been a PC GPU clocked in the ~250 MHz range since GeForce 3/Radeon R200-family.

 

[V3]

Well you know what else is amazing? That if it's just a shrunk Flipper that they couldn't quadruple the clock on the thing. It must just be super tiny, unless they have added things to it. But there hasn't been a PC GPU clocked in the ~250 MHz range since GeForce 3/Radeon R200-family.

That 24 MB supposedly embedded.

Looking at that 24MB and 64 MB RAM config, to me it seems they have upgraded the A-RAM memory controller on Flipper probably into the same 1T-SRAM main memory controller. So that 64 MB segment replaces the Gamecube slow A-RAM. So it should have more functionality in Wii compare to Gamecube.

 

[darkblu]

Well you know what else is amazing? That if it's just a shrunk Flipper that they couldn't quadruple the clock on the thing. It must just be super tiny, unless they have added things to it.

the following table gives the freq ratings of the various current 1T-sram products of mosys:

Product Family	Max Frq (MHz)
180 nm
High-Perf	250
Low-Power	125
130 nm
High-Perf	350
Low-Power	150
90 nm
High-Perf	450
Low-Power	250
65 nm
High-Perf	600

i think we can safely assume that hollywood uses the low-power version at 90nm*, which tops at 250MHz. so they could have not possibly quadrupled the GPU clock unless the whole thing moved to 65nm.

now, re the "other" 64MB, they may be using the R variety, as from the same press release we know those are residing on their own chip.

But there hasn't been a PC GPU clocked in the ~250 MHz range since GeForce 3/Radeon R200-family.

PC IGPs are regularly clocked in the ~300MHz range.


* from that famous mosys press release we know wii uses 90nm 1T-sram all around.

 

[Blade]

PC IGPs are regularly clocked in the ~300MHz range.

I think he meant worthwhile GPUs.

 

[ban25]

That 24 MB supposedly embedded.

Unlikely. That would make it unnecessarily expensive for what it is.

 

[Ty]

For $250 it had better be more than an overclocked GCN or at least come with DVD playback right out of the box. How cheap can they be?