WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?

[Thunder Emperor]

Gamastura Tev article

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20.../sauer_pfv.htm

Matt knows nothing

 

[Rodéric]

Gamastura Tev article

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20.../sauer_pfv.htm

Matt knows nothing

Here's the link:
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20021002/sauer_01.htm

Free Registration required. (Worth it given the lot of articles available)

 

[pc999]

Interesting while I read it last time I didnt notice that those shadings fxs are all in the Rogue Leader, it would be very interesting what a upgraded flipper can do (even if just in theory and not on the wii).

 

[StefanS]

There's an old thread on the TEVs as well with some postings from ERP:

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1086

 

[pc999]

So indeed if they could read date independentely it would be possible having more than one TEV unit, right?.

 

[fearsomepirate]

There's a new podcast on IGN where Matt mentions rumors from devs saying Hollywood features no pixel shader capabilities.

Look, I'm not calling Matt a liar, but I've said this before, and we're talking about a guy for whom "graphics whore" means owning an HDTV, not owning a high-end gaming PC with SLI'd video cards. Come on, the guy swears by Macs and says he can't see a big difference between X360 games at 480p and Xbox games. Something tells me he's not exactly a "tech junkie" and likely to easily misinterpret information.

 

[see colon]

has everyone given up on the possibility that nintendo is going for a 2 chip graphics sollution? or perhaps 2 proccessors in a single package. given how cheap some people are claiming a proccess shrunk flipper should be, would it be impossible for nintendo to include the older GPU for backwards compatability and have a new GPU built from the ground up for revolution? perhaps saving money by packaging them together and allowing them to share embedded memory, maybe even divide up rendering workloads (IE have flipper render a texture that hollywould would then use in a scene)

 

[Urian]

Other Example Compatible Implementations

[0138] Certain of the above-described system components 50 could be implemented as other than the home video game console configuration described above. For example, one could run graphics application or other software written for system 50 on a platform with a different configuration that emulates system 50 or is otherwise compatible with it. If the other platform can successfully emulate, simulate and/or provide some or all of the hardware and software resources of system 50, then the other platform will be able to successfully execute the software.

[0140] Some general purpose digital computers (e.g., IBM or MacIntosh personal computers and compatibles) are now equipped with 3D graphics cards that provide 3D graphics pipelines compliant with DirectX or other standard 3D graphics command APIs. They may also be equipped with stereophonic sound cards that provide high quality stereophonic sound based on a standard set of sound commands. Such multimedia-hardware-equip- ped personal computers running emulator software may have sufficient performance to approximate the graphics and sound performance of system 50. Emulator software controls the hardware resources on the personal computer platform to simulate the processing, 3D graphics, sound, peripheral and other capabilities of the home video game console platform for which the game programmer wrote the game software

[0143] An emulator 1303 used to provide some or all of the features of the video game system described above may also be provided with a graphic user interface (GUI) that simplifies or automates the selection of various options and screen modes for games run using the emulator. In one example, such an emulator 1303 may further include enhanced functionality as compared with the host platform for which the software was originally intended. In the case. where particular graphics support hardware within an emulator does not include the embossed bump mapping functions shown in FIGS. 7 and 8, the emulator designer has a choice of either:

[0151] In one example, video adapter 1235 may include a 3D graphics pipeline chip set providing fast 3D graphics rendering in response to 3D graphics commands issued based on a standard 3D graphics application programmer interface such as Microsoft's DirectX 7.0 or other version. A set of stereo loudspeakers 1237 is also connected to system bus 1207 via a sound generating interface such as a conventional "sound card" providing hardware and embedded software support for generating high quality stereophonic sound based on sound commands provided by bus 1207. These hardware capabilities allow system 1201 to provide sufficient graphics and sound speed performance to play software stored in storage medium 62.

All this comes from:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=4&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=%22Bump+Mapping%22&s2=Nintendo&OS="Bump+Mapping"+AND+Nintendo&RS="Bump+Mapping"+AND+Nintendo

 

[GwymWeepa]

Matt now claims that the wii has the exact same chips as the GC but simply overclocked.

 

[Rodéric]

Matt now claims that the wii has the exact same chips as the GC but simply overclocked.

If true it's underwhelming, and would make the console cheaper, my target price would then be 149€/$.

Bah, it's all about gameplay anyway.

Still if the GPU is not ready yet, it's unlikely to be an overclocked version...

 

[Urian]

Matt now claims that the wii has the exact same chips as the GC but simply overclocked.

December 2005 specs by Matt: Gekko with enhacements, double clocked and with 88MB of 1T-SRAM and 16MB of A-RAM. He said that he didn´t know anything about Hollywood and he speculated that it could be an upgrade of Flipper.

January 2005: ATI confirms that Hollywood isn´t derived from Flipper or a PC counterpart and that is completely new.

March 2005 specs by Matt: Gekko with enhacements, 50% of clock speed from Gamecube, GPU with 3MB eDRAM, A-RAM has been lost. GPU is lacks of Shaders.

June 2005 specs by Matt: GCN with 88MB of memory and overclocked 50%.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=%28%22Takeda%2C+Genyo%22.IN.%29&OS=IN/"Takeda,+Genyo"&RS=IN/"Takeda,+Genyo" ---> Gamecube patent Assigned to Nintendo.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=2&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=%28%22Van+Hook%2C+Timothy%22.IN.%29&OS=IN/"Van+Hook,+Timothy"&RS=IN/"Van+Hook,+Timothy" ---> Updated Flipper patent.

The truth is that the GCN and Wii GPU are close relatives in hardware, made for taking the maximum part of a Graphics Library similar to OpenGL. In Wii the GL has been updated with new things and old things has been revamped and with more effective algorhymts.

Is like the VSA-100 from 3Dfx, the processor was different than the typical Voodoo Graphics architecture but it was designed for be compatible with Glide and provide backwards compatibility without problems.

 

[pc999]

Can you repost the link to the patents please, they dont work.

Edit: our tell us which are the diferences.

Edit: I did a small search with Van Hook and Timothy but I didnt get anything filed after 2000, meybe they just updated the patent because they did the GPU somewhaat diferent? Even the patent above refer at least partially emulated software.

 

[Rodéric]

Only came across the Flipper architecture...

Pipeline:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week08/OG/html/1303-3/US07002591-20060221.html

TEV:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week17/OG/html/1305-4/US07034828-20060425.html

 

[pc999]

Thanks.

 

[pc999]

has everyone given up on the possibility that nintendo is going for a 2 chip graphics sollution? or perhaps 2 proccessors in a single package. given how cheap some people are claiming a proccess shrunk flipper should be, would it be impossible for nintendo to include the older GPU for backwards compatability and have a new GPU built from the ground up for revolution? perhaps saving money by packaging them together and allowing them to share embedded memory, maybe even divide up rendering workloads (IE have flipper render a texture that hollywould would then use in a scene)

The exact same chip wouldnt make sense, you wouldnt want to wast again silicon on I/O, DSP etc... some parts (TEV) meybe.

 

[Megadrive1988]

has everyone given up on the possibility that nintendo is going for a 2 chip graphics sollution? or perhaps 2 proccessors in a single package. given how cheap some people are claiming a proccess shrunk flipper should be, would it be impossible for nintendo to include the older GPU for backwards compatability and have a new GPU built from the ground up for revolution? perhaps saving money by packaging them together and allowing them to share embedded memory, maybe even divide up rendering workloads (IE have flipper render a texture that hollywould would then use in a scene)

no need. GPUs are already parallel "multi core" on a single die anyway. Hollywood is probably 1 chip/die, no need for two chips. perhaps there will be two enhanced TEV units in Flipper and 8 pixel pipes/ROPs still giving only around half the fillrate of Xenos. and still far less shader power. but exellent for SDTV resolutions. perhaps also, there will be two XF units (T&L units /geometry processors) instead of one. or the old XF plus a new Vertex Shader or two. the EDRAM will be completely embedded into the GPU, unlike with Xenos where the EDRAM is a seperate chip.

overall, I think Hollywood will be a 'superset' of Flipper. no need for seperate Flipper and Hollywood on two chips or even on one chip.

GeForce 2 GTS (NV15) to GeForce 3 (NV20) might be a good example. or maybe not, what do I know.

The truth is that the GCN and Wii GPU are close relatives in hardware, made for taking the maximum part of a Graphics Library similar to OpenGL. In Wii the GL has been updated with new things and old things has been revamped and with more effective algorhymts.

Is like the VSA-100 from 3Dfx, the processor was different than the typical Voodoo Graphics architecture but it was designed for be compatible with Glide and provide backwards compatibility without problems.

I would have to agree Urian, however I used a GPU example, NV15 and NV20, since both Flipper and Hollywood are GPUs, unlike 3Dfx Voodoo Graphics and VSA-100 which were merely 3D graphics accelerators/rasterizers.
but you example still may possibly prove to be right on target.

Matt now claims that the wii has the exact same chips as the GC but simply overclocked.

I think Matt is out of touch on the technology base - or he just does not know ANYTHING about Hollywood.

 

[Urian]

http://www.mosysinc.com/idm_solutions/

See how the 180nm 1T-SRAM memory at 162Mhz is between the Low Power and the High Power memory (I am talking about Gamecube) and is usable in a system with a 39W PSU.

Now take the 90nm and you can see how the ATI GPU in Hollywood can be clocked between 250 and 450Mhz, a a number more higher than the 243Mhz that Matt Talked about.

And if we add the fact that the 1T-SRAM at 90nm is 1T-SRAM-Q that has 3 times more density all the mythos of LSI at 243Mhz and 3MB eDRAM only crumbles from the base.

Do you remember the rumour of Cube with 64MB of main memory and 8MB eDRAM?

 

[see colon]

The exact same chip wouldnt make sense, you wouldnt want to wast again silicon on I/O, DSP etc... some parts (TEV) meybe.

isn't hollywood supposed to contain those functions (I/O, DSP, ect) anyway? flipper could still handle all of these functions while the new GPU would just handle rendering.

no need. GPUs are already parallel "multi core" on a single die anyway.

the main concern i think would be maintaining 100% backwards compatability. if nintendo are going for a new GPU not based on flipper or any PC part (like ATI says), a superset of flipper wouldn't really be an option.

 

[Teasy]

Any guesses at what kind of bus Nintendo might use with the main 1T-Sram-Q memory? GameCube's 1T-Sram used a 64bit bus, but what could Wii use? Surely if they've increased the amount of ram by 4 to 5 times then bandwidth must also have increased.

 

[NANOTEC]

What bus width's does the newest 1T-Sram-Q support? GameCube's 1T-Sram used a 64bit bus, but what could Wii use? Surely if they've increased the amount of ram by 4 to 5 times then bandwidth must also have increased (more then the 50% the higher clock would allow for).

Depends on how many chips you use.