Why does Grand Turismo 4 look so incredibly good

[ihamoitc2005]

Tunnel Racer

Well thank you dear sirs about the comments about RSC2, glad people still remember it and like it I was the main rendering/engine programmer on it.

I did a blog post 1.5 years ago with a few 720p 4xAA screenshots of RSC2 just as a tease of what might have been, at a minimum level, if we did a RSC3 for the 360. They can be found here http://repi.blogspot.com/2005/05/rallisport-challenge-3.html, nothing super-special but might be of interest. If we would do a new racing game for next-gen it would (of course) widely out do those screenshots, especially now when we've had lots of time to develop on the 360 and build tech.


We had a very different art direction than GT4. They aimed for a pure photorealism look and had to make it very static while we aimed more at a playful dynamic environment full of effects. Think we both did quite well.

From a gameplay point-of view tough I can not stand tunnel racers such as GT4

Thank you for this great post my friend. What is a "tunnel racer"?

 

[aselto]

Well thank you dear sirs about the comments about RSC2, glad people still remember it and like it

Great games should never be forgotten.:smile:

I was the main rendering/engine programmer on it.

Congratulations for really great job. BTW how is Bad Company doing?

I did a blog post 1.5 years ago with a few 720p 4xAA screenshots of RSC2 just as a tease of what might have been, at a minimum level, if we did a RSC3 for the 360. They can be found here http://repi.blogspot.com/2005/05/rallisport-challenge-3.html, nothing super-special but might be of interest. If we would do a new racing game for next-gen it would (of course) widely out do those screenshots, especially now when we've had lots of time to develop on the 360 and build tech.

You are very cruel for fans of RSC2

 

[Rockster]

I used to just sit and watch RSC2 replays because the graphics were so awesome. The racer I used to stare at before that was TD: Le Mans by Melbourne House on the Dreamcast. Ah, the memories. Make RSC3 for the 360 and I promise to buy 2 copies.

 

[blakjedi]

I used to just sit and watch RSC2 replays because the graphics were so awesome. The racer I used to stare at before that was TD: Le Mans by Melbourne House on the Dreamcsat. Ah, the memories. Make RSC3 for the 360 and I promise to buy 2 copies.

I still play TD LeMans to this day. The lighting/atmospherics in the game were impressive.

 

[iceberg187]

No damage needing to be stored in ram, as well as fewer physics calculations, in comparison to it's nearest competitor.

 

[repi]

Thank you for this great post my friend. What is a "tunnel racer"?

A tunnel racer is a racing game where the environment is only built and rendered just around the road your driving on. Prime example is the old classic Sega games such as Outrun and Sega Rally. They had a very short view distance and heavily restrict the vehicles to always be very close to the road. This of course makes rendering, collision, performance and memory a lot easier to manage than in a full 3D world but it can also make you feel that you are driving in a "tunnel" all the time.

In the Rallisport games, one of our main goals was to have a full 3D world with a very long view distance (esp. in RSC2) to make the player fully aware of his environment and get rid of the "tunnel" feeling. Also, from a purely visual point of view, it can look very cool when you are at the start position of the track and can see the end of the track 2km away on top of a mountain

 

[repi]

Congratulations for really great job. BTW how is Bad Company doing?

It's going quite well. It's a very complicated game to develop, both from a gameplay point-of-view with both multi-player and single-player (first proper single-player game we've done), and from a technical point-of-view with large destructible non-linear environments on the consoles. An interesting challenge to say the least

 

[Deepak]

Thanks repi for posting here and sharing your views. Nice to see another dev here.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

A tunnel racer is a racing game where the environment is only built and rendered just around the road your driving on....it can also make you feel that you are driving in a "tunnel" all the time.

I can't say I agree with that. A circuit racer is by nature a 'tunnel racer' as you're not free to drive off and explore. So why invest resources in providing for the opportunity to view and collide in 3D with elements of the scenery that the player will never get to experience? The scenery in GT4's Tokyo circuits, for example, was enough to give the feeling you were racing around a built up area. Having barriers you could break through and race through backstreets may make for an intersting extra gaming element, but woudn't help at all with the illusion of a race-circuit. GT4 didn't suffer from any draw-distance problems either that I recall, giving an artificially constricted view of the world.

 

[aselto]

I can't say I agree with that. A circuit racer is by nature a 'tunnel racer' as you're not free to drive off and explore. So why invest resources in providing for the opportunity to view and collide in 3D with elements of the scenery that the player will never get to experience?

Player does get to experience them, to lesser extent during actual gameplay and to further extent during replays. Replays in RSC2 were the only replays I ever bothered to watch frequently and beautiful and detailed landscapes definitely the reason.

 

[repi]

I can't say I agree with that. A circuit racer is by nature a 'tunnel racer' as you're not free to drive off and explore. So why invest resources in providing for the opportunity to view and collide in 3D with elements of the scenery that the player will never get to experience? The scenery in GT4's Tokyo circuits, for example, was enough to give the feeling you were racing around a built up area. Having barriers you could break through and race through backstreets may make for an intersting extra gaming element, but woudn't help at all with the illusion of a race-circuit. GT4 didn't suffer from any draw-distance problems either that I recall, giving an artificially constricted view of the world.

Yes it doesn't make sense at all to have a fully built free open world if your doing a pure circuit racer. And GT4 is circuit racer that is designed and developed to perfectly fit the specific gameplay and environments they have.

Traditionally tough, a lot of racing games have been tunnel racers (Colin McRae anyone) because of, at it's time, purely technical limitations. This usually results in short view distances and, in my opinion, a claustrophobic feeling together with not as interesting visuals nor gameplay. But depends on the game and how well it is implemented. In general I personally do prefer prefer the more open and free games compared to the average tunnel or circuit racer which there seems to be an endless supply of. Also find it more interesting from a technical point-of-view.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Traditionally tough, a lot of racing games have been tunnel racers (Colin McRae anyone) because of, at it's time, purely technical limitations.

Okay. That's something I can't comment on, not being a racing enthusiast.

 

[Inquisitive_Idiot]

I think Gran Turismo 4 looks good mainly due to the excellent use of lighting on the cars and in the gameplay environment. I would not go as far as to say Gran Turismo 4 was the best looking last gen racer, but I would defiantly say it gives Burnout a run for its money on the Playstation 2.

 

[Arwin]

Yes it doesn't make sense at all to have a fully built free open world if your doing a pure circuit racer. And GT4 is circuit racer that is designed and developed to perfectly fit the specific gameplay and environments they have.

GT4 may be a circuit racer, but it is a circuit racer with a *lot* of depth to its environments, and *very*good draw distances.

For me, graphically, the highlights are definitely the lighting, which is just very, very realistic. If you make a screenshot, and make it small enough to not see the individual pixels or polygons, then it just looks very, very good. Few games pass that test. The cars, while driving, feel convincing, especially with the DF Pro wheel with 900 degree support, but you also see that while racing - your car leans forward and to the side in very convincing ways and also conform your spring and damper settings. The replays show this very well (great replay cameras are another highlight). And the car models are just downright awesome, with such attention to detail, getting all the official colors just right, great headlights, emblems, etc.

There is a video on the web comparing a run on GT4's Nurburgring with footage of the real thing, side-by-side, and it looks just incredible, a great example of how good the coloring and lighting in this game is.

And by the way, Colin McRae is a rally game that draws the environment around the car. The car is central and the gameworld revolves around it. This definitely detracts from its handling realism. Maybe this is what you mean with a tunnel racer. GT4 is not such a game.

 

[ERP]

Art Direction? Maybe, but your cars don't suddenly become photorealistic due to art direction, imho.
There's a great rendering tech behind it, the simply fact that all the other racing/drawing games pale (to different degrees..) compared to it, it's a sign that they got their lighting equations right

Don't get me wrong I wasn't down playing their tech, it's very good, but I think there are other PS2 games that likely have equivalent or better tech that simply fail to meet the same visual bar.

IME the difference between a good looking game and a great looking game is on the art side, and in GT's case I think they did a stellar job accross the board which I put down to the art direction.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

IME the difference between a good looking game and a great looking game is on the art side, and in GT's case I think they did a stellar job accross the board which I put down to the art direction.

To paraphrase, you're far more likely to be able to produce a good looking game with a moderate engine and great art than with a great engine and moderate art. That's something I'm sure nAo's agreed with more than once, and his comment was just to give credit where credits due, and point out that GT4 isn't just run-of-the-mill tech.

 

[junkheap]

Well thank you dear sirs about the comments about RSC2, glad people still remember it and like it I was the main rendering/engine programmer on it.

I did a blog post 1.5 years ago with a few 720p 4xAA screenshots of RSC2 just as a tease of what might have been, at a minimum level, if we did a RSC3 for the 360. They can be found here http://repi.blogspot.com/2005/05/rallisport-challenge-3.html, nothing super-special but might be of interest. If we would do a new racing game for next-gen it would (of course) widely out do those screenshots, especially now when we've had lots of time to develop on the 360 and build tech.


We had a very different art direction than GT4. They aimed for a pure photorealism look and had to make it very static while we aimed more at a playful dynamic environment full of effects. Think we both did quite well.

From a gameplay point-of view tough I can not stand tunnel racers such as GT4

Oh Man, if there ever was a reason to buy an x360 it would be for rsc3 .. Not that there arent any other reasons mind u, but i found it to be the most fun and the graphically best racer on the xbox. I had forza as well, there was just something about it that didnt want to grab me as much as rsc2.

 

[infinity4]

GT4 visuals are amazing considering that ps2 only had 4mb video memory and 32mb main memory (please forgive me if i am wrong)

i wonder what sort of graphics we would get if devs make most use of current gen hardwares

 

[Cheezdoodles]

A tunnel racer is a racing game where the environment is only built and rendered just around the road your driving on. Prime example is the old classic Sega games such as Outrun and Sega Rally. They had a very short view distance and heavily restrict the vehicles to always be very close to the road. This of course makes rendering, collision, performance and memory a lot easier to manage than in a full 3D world but it can also make you feel that you are driving in a "tunnel" all the time.

In the Rallisport games, one of our main goals was to have a full 3D world with a very long view distance (esp. in RSC2) to make the player fully aware of his environment and get rid of the "tunnel" feeling. Also, from a purely visual point of view, it can look very cool when you are at the start position of the track and can see the end of the track 2km away on top of a mountain

Hmm.. you know what? This is the same for FPS games aswell. Im not sure if you ever played GR:AW on the x360, but the game has a huge 3d rendered city, that you walk around in. Ofcourse in reality you can only walk around in a tiny small part of this, but because you see this huge city around you (aspecially when your flying a chopper) it makes you feel that the game is actually big and open.

 

[-tkf-]

A tunnel racer is a racing game where the environment is only built and rendered just around the road your driving on. Prime example is the old classic Sega games such as Outrun and Sega Rally. They had a very short view distance and heavily restrict the vehicles to always be very close to the road. This of course makes rendering, collision, performance and memory a lot easier to manage than in a full 3D world but it can also make you feel that you are driving in a "tunnel" all the time.

In the Rallisport games, one of our main goals was to have a full 3D world with a very long view distance (esp. in RSC2) to make the player fully aware of his environment and get rid of the "tunnel" feeling. Also, from a purely visual point of view, it can look very cool when you are at the start position of the track and can see the end of the track 2km away on top of a mountain

Nice of you to drop in, did you ever try the WRC series?

And about RSC2, pretty much the only game that truely impressed me on the XBOX, reminds me i have to pick it up!