Whats needed for character/facial Photo Realism?

skilzygw

Newcomer
Hi I was just wondering what is needed for photorealism in games. For charaacters. I mean It seems to me all the new gpu's have gotten faster. Is it really a matter of speed and more polygons? Or is it just that there is not enough power to get the lighting correct?

Is it more a matter of lighting and color then anything else?

How do you get the realistic tones & colors etc...? Is the technology not invented yet?

Thanks...

It may sound like a dumb question so I apologize. Im just really interested in the actually tech behind this stuff. Thanks.
 
Well,

Getting a face to look real is pretty darn hard. Because it is a major part of person recognition, the brain can easily pick out any inconsistancies in faces to make it look "weird".

So, to get photorealism with faces is pretty much a holy-grail of rendering from what I could understand.

You would have to model the physics of the skin moving over the face, the light transport charastics of the face and hair (subsurface scattering? volumnetric rendering?). Model moisture on the lips, pores on skin (or makeup instead), HDR, yada yada yada. You gotta get the eyes right. And even then, it can all be destroyed by bad animation.

I've lost track of current rendering trends, but I can still imagine itll be three years or so before we get realtime photorealistic facial rendering which makes you do a doubletake.
 
I just want to throw this in:

"Photo realism" is an interesting term because, as we all know, photos don't move and the goal of the 3D mainly discussed here is about moving images. Very rapidly moving images. That is to say, the focus is on real-time 3D hardware and not 3D rendering such as Lightwave/Renderman where you put data in and ask for a single frame out; or a sequence of frames for offline animation as is often the case. So, with this in mind and accepting certain limitations when real-time is needed (let's say at least 30 fps), I would just like to inject the idea that it is detailed animation that will give the wow effect.

You can make a very statically detailed face and it will look good in a photo, but it may also look very strange in motion (at least when the viewer is considering the scene to be "in motion," but it may be perfectly still and odd looking). You might think of comments like "you look and act like a robot" with people who show very little emotion in their face. Emotion is dynamic, as in we relate to the face changing its form (eyebrows rising, lips curling, etc). If you always wore the exact same smile it would stop becoming recognized as your emotion (and then you'd be thrown into an asylum, but I digress... :p) So, I think it's possible to make faces that are not very detailed upon close scrutiny of the static details, but that come through as being realistic and life-like in their detailed dynamics.

After all, you recognize this: :D as a smiling face, but it looks nothing like one you might see in nature. Very little more is needed to make you believe it to be a living thing if it is artistically animated.

Ok, I don't know if this helped or hurt the discussion. Just wanted to toss that in there ;)
 
SSS

subsurface scattering. it's the way light bounces around inside a surface and then back out. it's what makes skin light up so softly. take a small flashlight or a laser and point it at your skin, you'll see how the light gets scattered inside your skin and makes it kind of glow. The Radeon X800 (i think) had a SSS demo and its pretty awesome if you know what you're looking for. SSS basically takes away the plasticity look that most games currently have and its very computation-intensive. I think it will be some time before we have the power to apply it large-scale in a game.
 
wireframe speaks the truth. Technology isn't what makes thing look realistic/alive, it's the artists and animators. Just think of Pixar's Luxo Jr.
 
Jodi said:
Well,

Getting a face to look real is pretty darn hard. Because it is a major part of person recognition, the brain can easily pick out any inconsistancies in faces to make it look "weird".

So, to get photorealism with faces is pretty much a holy-grail of rendering from what I could understand.

You would have to model the physics of the skin moving over the face, the light transport charastics of the face and hair (subsurface scattering? volumnetric rendering?). Model moisture on the lips, pores on skin (or makeup instead), HDR, yada yada yada. You gotta get the eyes right. And even then, it can all be destroyed by bad animation.

I've lost track of current rendering trends, but I can still imagine itll be three years or so before we get realtime photorealistic facial rendering which makes you do a doubletake.

Or take the max payne way and just put a real picture on the model.

Halflife 2 had some nice face animation though.
 
Well, I think that technology-wise, we're almost there. The problem is making the art. It's hard as hell to make the source art look good for a face, and I have yet to see anyone really do a good job in 3D (granted, I'm talking about just for rendering the head: it'll clearly take much longer to be able to put that in a context for a full-blown game).

But then the real problem comes forward: animation. It's vastly harder to make the movement look good. I mean, consider Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. If you look at some screenshots, you might think those are real people. But if you see the movie, it's obvious they're not.
 
Just for fun, take a look at this clip (you may have seen it before) and note how great the detail is. A shaky camera with loss of focus helps make it look very real. However, note how it "loses it" in the end. Something happens and suddenly you can tell it's not real. Of course you may think it all looks real so I apologize if I insult your version of reality. I just think it's a great clip to show how incredible detail (you have seen it up close) can be quickly destroyed by unnatural motion.

For the record, I was sold for the first half of the clip even though it does have some unnatural qualities regarding color. It is also interesting to note that once you know the full clip, the repeat begins to deteriorate in realism as well because you know (bias) that it is not. It would be very interesting to cut this clip in half and play it for first-time viewers. To trim it to the point where it "loses it" and see if any part can survive the test that is the human brain.

PS. I am sure some will note the unnatural teeth in the smile as well, but, let's face it, those could be real with the new Hollywood Standard.
 
Wireframe- The first thing I noticed wrong with the clip wasn't the animation(though that followed shortly) but rather that her face as a whole looked rather plastic.

And those Matrix people don't look real at all, PC-Engine. They'd fit in well in the Unreal Engine 3 though.
 
wireframe, I think it's the lips that break the illusion first. And then, the rather unnatural motion that forms the smile.

I think those Matrix faces are well done, but their eyes aren't convincing (reflection, lashes and lids), the shadow around the nose is too deep, they lack hair silhouette and, most of all, real asymmetry.
 
With the Matrix faces, it seems that certain skin tones mask the "slightly plastic" look. For example, I think the second guy looks almost perfect, and I would not have known he was computer generated. Guy #7 (the asian) looks nearly as good (the asymmetric eyebrows are a nice touch). Also, darker eyes seem to be easier to render.

And damn, old people are apparently quite hard to get right!
 
For me the illusion was broken once I realized that I'm sitting in a chair staring at a computer screen, that almost immediately tells me that what I'm seeing is not real. Although I have to admit I did start to ask the girl for her number before I realized what was going on.
 
The first shot looks great, not totally realistic, but it looks great.
If I saw that in a game today, I'd shit my pants :oops:
 
Ugh, I f'in hate that second one (Jenny). The facial proportions are way off. The artist really should take at least one art class.

Most of the rest are pretty good, though all seem to have their faults, whether it's the hair, skin tone, or whatever. I actually think the best was the guy, though there was something a bit odd about his nose.
 
Chalnoth said:
Ugh, I f'in hate that second one (Jenny). The facial proportions are way off. The artist really should take at least one art class.

What do you mean? Even real people are not always perfectly proportioned. Ever look at the faces for fashion models from different ethnicities?
 
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