What would have been the reason for MS not adding hdmi to first 360s

[Tap In]

Disagree.

I don't think MS "underestimated" anything. It's simply that in MS's estimation, next-gen optical drive in their game console was simply not as important as ensuring that the console could launch in '05, and be ramped up in manufacturing throughout '06. (I, and I'd wager most people, would say that was the right decision for MS.)

exactly.... every time this "argument" comes up, people ignore this fact.

This head start which evidently in no way has put them behind Sony is/was imperative.

Edit:
re: "in no way"... ok, one way... game single disc size.

otherwise because of DVD and releasing in '05, they are currently ahead on:

Price (and downward price scalability)
Market share (currently )
Units in the pipeline
Software on the shelf (and on Live Arcade)
Software in the pipeline for release in '06-'07 with solid Dev support
Dev tools
Online HD content
They had their HD movie player out before the PS3's Blu Ray

these things are absolutely critical to having a chance against the Playstation juggernaut

 

[Dave Baumann]

I think they were trying to reduce the BOM costs and as someone else noted, they would have had to pay for additional chips and royalties to put HDMI in.

Of course, cost is one factor, and thats probably similar to the reason PS3 has scaler issues; in this instance though, given the relative timeframes, its obvious compatibility was more of a priority.

MS probably underestimated how the next-gen optical drive would become a big check list item. If they come out with an "X360 II" SKU which has the HDMI and/or HD-DVD integrated, that's admitting HD playback has become an issue in next-gen consoles.

I wouldn't see it as an issue; it would be an issue if these things were actively and significantly constraining sales of hardware right now - is there any evidence of that? Not that I can see; in fact Sony is proving the addition of these things really is an issue right now.

 

[pipo]

They didn't include it because the 360 was originally a machine targeted for 720p/1080i.

That's all. No other explaination required. 1080p is a gimmick they added later for marketing reasons.

All hdtv sets accept 720p via component. And even 1080i support is better than PS3 in this regard.

Nope. And the scaler proves you're wrong too.

MS did a fine job on this by the way. The VGA out supports a wide range of settings and it already made two of my friends happy. That's 40% of all users I know directly.

Both have 'older' LCD's with (16:9!) 1024 x 768 panels. One of those has component in, but only 480i and 576i, and the other one only has SCART in. Both sets do have VGA (DVI) in though, and the guys are very happy with the scaler I can tell you. You just set the box to that weird native resolution and off you go.

And make no mistake, there are a lot of those screens in the market over here...

 

[Gubbi]

MS probably underestimated how the next-gen optical drive would become a big check list item. If they come out with an "X360 II" SKU which has the HDMI and/or HD-DVD integrated, that's admitting HD playback has become an issue in next-gen consoles.

Well, it'll be real easy to see in a years time. Just compare the sell-through numbers of the HD-DVD add-on with the total number of 360s, that'll be the fraction of console owners that care (enough) for HD movie playback.

I'm guessing it'll be well below 10%

Cheers

 

[infinity4]

http://www.dimensionplus.nl/index3.asp?url=/link.asp?pid=780112

some dutch site selling HDMI AV cable for Xbox 360 from 23rd Feb 07

my guess: 95% rumour 5% chance this is true even though i hope this happens in the future

 

[dobwal]

MS probably underestimated how the next-gen optical drive would become a big check list item. If they come out with an "X360 II" SKU which has the HDMI and/or HD-DVD integrated, that's admitting HD playback has become an issue in next-gen consoles.

The next-gen optical drive is a big check list item for Sony. It is unknown if this a big check list item for the majority of us, customers.

Sony came out with a PSX, does that mean Sony admitted that DVR functionality had become an issue last generation?

 

[mrcorbo]

Well, it'll be real easy to see in a years time. Just compare the sell-through numbers of the HD-DVD add-on with the total number of 360s, that'll be the fraction of console owners that care (enough) for HD movie playback.

I'm guessing it'll be well below 10%

Cheers

Problem is the people buying the add-on to use with a PC where it is by far the cheapest option. This would skew the numbers.

 

[Fu3lFr3nzy]

Im hoping that they eventually come out with a X360 with a built-in HDMI.

Eh, if all else fails, theres always component cables I guess

 

[pipo]

Im hoping that they eventually come out with a X360 with a built-in HDMI.

Eh, if all else fails, theres always component cables I guess

Or VGA. Superb picture quality...

 

[London Geezer]

http://www.dimensionplus.nl/index3.asp?url=/link.asp?pid=780112

some dutch site selling HDMI AV cable for Xbox 360 from 23rd Feb 07

my guess: 95% rumour 5% chance this is true even though i hope this happens in the future

Well, i don't see how that could be real. Then again, a lot could happen between now and Feb 23rd.

 

[Rolf N]

well considering that it was evidently built into the system on a hardware level and activated with a firmware update, I'd hardly call it a "gimmick added later". There were rumors upon release in 2005 that they would have a surprise feature available by 2006.

What?! You mean like 1400x1050 is evidently built into my Geforce 7600GS because I can use that custom resolution? You're really getting ahead of things there. The resolution is configurable, simple as that. An indication that it was not particularly "built into the system on a hardware level" might perhaps be that baseline 3D rendering in 1080p needs more than 16MB of framebuffer memory, and the hardware doesn't have them. Needs to jump through a couple of hoops just to make it work.

 

[pipo]

What?! You mean like 1400x1050 is evidently built into my Geforce 7600GS because I can use that custom resolution? You're really getting ahead of things there. The resolution is configurable, simple as that.

Ken is looking for an engineer. He's having some firmware issues or something. I'll tell him you said hi.

 

[Rolf N]

Ken is looking for an engineer. He's having some firmware issues or something. I'll tell him you said hi.

He needs someone to figure out how to make the PS3 scale render resolutions to output resolutions in an arbitrary, general fashion. I don't doubt for a second that RSX could, as-is, render and output graphics at 3072x64.

 

[Mintmaster]

Having said that, If MS does introduce a SKU at some point with integrated HD playback (either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray / combo for that matter), I would expect HDMI to also be integrated into the unit. I have always maintained ever since the add-on was announced, that MS would eventually introduce a new SKU with it integrated (even though MS has denied it). The abolute earliest we would see one is x-mas '07, but more likely to be sometime in '08, if ever.

This is a key point, IMO, about the next gen drive. Sony's only permanent advantage is Blu-ray for games, and personally I think that's a very minimal advantage. Eventually Microsoft will integrate the HD-DVD player in the console and Sony will lose their all-in-one advantage. HD-DVD players will probably drop in price in the near future also, so people may buy one before they get a console.

Basically, Sony lost a year for almost nothing. One thing I've wondered is whether Microsoft/Toshiba are increasing the cost of blue laser diodes for Sony. Both can make a high bid for these things and still make a profit, so they could cause some supply and cost headaches for Sony.

 

[infinity4]

ahh, too much confusions. im getting more and more confused