What would have been the reason for MS not adding hdmi to first 360s

[Mintmaster]

If you were one ofthose people who bought a first gen 1080p set you should have known what you were getting yourself into.

Actually the first gen 1080p sets for the most part didn't take 1080p input from HDMI, but did from component or VGA. The Samsung HLR DLP's were the first with 1080p resolution and were like this. The first mainstream Sony SXRD (not the $13k Qualia, but the grand wega) couldn't take 1080p input from HDMI either.

So in terms of compatibility, I'd say component/VGA is actually better than HDMI. Of course, the latter has theoretically better quality.

 

[infinity4]

what i was arguing was that they should have added BOTH instead of choosing one out of two

 

[Supernatural]

They didn't include it because the 360 was originally a machine targeted for 720p/1080i.

That's all. No other explaination required. 1080p is a gimmick they added later for marketing reasons.

All hdtv sets accept 720p via component. And even 1080i support is better than PS3 in this regard.

 

[infinity4]

but i thought there would be problems with ICT and other copyright protection issues???

 

[London Geezer]

but i thought there would be problems with ICT and other copyright protection issues???

ICT won't be enforced for a very long time, if ever. Xbox720 might come out and ICT could still not be enforced in fact.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Also, ICT only affects movies, and when XB360 was conceived, movie playback wasn't an out-of-the-box feature, or even definitely going to make it. If you're not supporting HD movies, you don't need TCI and thus HDMI. It's only after HDDVD became an option that ICT matters...when it comes into effect...if ever.

 

[GB123]

what i was arguing was that they should have added BOTH instead of choosing one out of two

What you mean like the PS3 doesn't support VGA ?

 

[infinity4]

What you mean like the PS3 doesn't support VGA ?

it supports HDMI - DVI-D

but u need a hd display with HDCP supported

 

[infinity4]

Also, ICT only affects movies, and when XB360 was conceived, movie playback wasn't an out-of-the-box feature, or even definitely going to make it. If you're not supporting HD movies, you don't need TCI and thus HDMI. It's only after HDDVD became an option that ICT matters...when it comes into effect...if ever.

i have leard that because early hdtvs dont have hdcp stuff hollywood studios delayed use of ict until 2012 (according to wikipedia)

 

[NavNucST3]

Assuming hd dvd is still around in 2010-12, I would guarantee I would be on about my third or fourth version of a stand-alone player, not to mention they will probably be cheaper than the 360 add-on. While this may be a rationalization, I only spent $103 on the hd dvd drive ($100 amazon gift card), my hd dvd movie library is quickly approaching my 360 games library, and boy do I have alot. My HD DVD library is also already exponentially greater than what my D-VHS library was.
I'm in the camp that colors on all of my sets have been "better" with component, my comcast box was essentially a waste of an hdmi cable (monoprice ftw on those, I think I bought 10 hdmi cables), the only other thing I have had hooked up via hdmi was my hd a1, which I have since given away, so my hdmi port is lonely, but I don't care... I would ask though that we keep the vc1 vs mpeg-2 vs avc hd/hd dvd vs blu-ray disc/component vs hdmi debates at AVS or add another sub-forum :smile:

 

[London Geezer]

Assuming hd dvd is still around in 2010-12, I would guarantee I would be on about my third or fourth version of a stand-alone player, not to mention they will probably be cheaper than the 360 add-on. While this may be a rationalization, I only spent $103 on the hd dvd drive ($100 amazon gift card), my hd dvd movie library is quickly approaching my 360 games library, and boy do I have alot. My HD DVD library is also already exponentially greater than what my D-VHS library was.
I'm in the camp that colors on all of my sets have been "better" with component, my comcast box was essentially a waste of an hdmi cable (monoprice ftw on those, I think I bought 10 hdmi cables), the only other thing I have had hooked up via hdmi was my hd a1, which I have since given away, so my hdmi port is lonely, but I don't care... I would ask though that we keep the vc1 vs mpeg-2 vs avc hd/hd dvd vs blu-ray disc/component vs hdmi debates at AVS or add another sub-forum :smile:

Mmm i get the feeling we should use you as an "average consumer" I mean... you have a library of D-VHS movies....

 

[NavNucST3]

Mmm i get the feeling we should use you as an "average consumer" I mean... you have a library of D-VHS movies....

Not anymore , ebay'd them months ago...funny story though, sold it to a guy who makes the wireless adapters for 360 and Sony. He gave me two 360 wireless adapters (no casing) that work perfectly...if anyone wants to see the inside of one I could post a pic, but I digress.

I would say I am the "average early adopter", where I know going in that if I spend this money I need to ensure that I will be happy with my purchase if the tech were to crash and burn tomorrow, although statements like what I saw earlier in the thread "you should have known what you were getting into" piss me off, sometimes we trust marketing (yeah, I know) if someone says they are selling 1080p TVs why would someone NOT believe them, to blame the consumer for being lied to is just BS to me. If some weren't fanatical about their internal components the CE mfrs would probably still be pushing no 1080p over HDMI sets, not even the UK has an HDTV guideline for that one

 

[Tap In]

That's all. No other explaination required. 1080p is a gimmick they added later for marketing reasons.

well considering that it was evidently built into the system on a hardware level and activated with a firmware update, I'd hardly call it a "gimmick added later". There were rumors upon release in 2005 that they would have a surprise feature available by 2006.

 

[infinity4]

well considering that it was evidently built into the system on a hardware level and activated with a firmware update, I'd hardly call it a "gimmick added later". There were rumors upon release in 2005 that they would have a surprise feature available by 2006.

1080p does not tempt me, nobody in the world has eyes that can find difference between 720p and 1080p unless the screen is 40 inch or higher. It is definitely LUXURY not NECESSITY

anyway, i wouldnt be the one affected by lack of hdmi, i dont even have monitor that supports hdcp. i would have to use vga regardless of whether 360 had hdmi or not

 

[infinity4]

1080p does not tempt me, nobody in the world has eyes that can find difference between 720p and 1080p unless the screen is 40 inch or higher. It is definitely LUXURY not NECESSITY

anyway, i wouldnt be the one affected by lack of hdmi, i dont even have monitor that supports hdcp. i would have to use vga regardless of whether 360 had hdmi or not

so i dont think 1080p is a surprise feature

 

[wco81]

In light of the issues that Sony are having with regards to scaling and compatibility, it seems to me that MS's primary effort on the display side was compatibility. On the one side you have Sony pushing for the latest output specification, which has caused some issues with older HDTV sets, while on the other MS put aside the very latest specifications whilst creating an output system with high compatibility with new and old sets.

I think they were trying to reduce the BOM costs and as someone else noted, they would have had to pay for additional chips and royalties to put HDMI in.

Remember, they didn't provide DVD playback out of the box for Xbox (or XP) unless the customer paid additional to cover the cost of the licenses.

HDMI is only an issue because of the HD-DVD add-on. And the add-on is an issue because of the integrated Blu-Ray drive in the PS3.

MS probably underestimated how the next-gen optical drive would become a big check list item. If they come out with an "X360 II" SKU which has the HDMI and/or HD-DVD integrated, that's admitting HD playback has become an issue in next-gen consoles.

 

[wco81]

ICT won't be enforced for a very long time, if ever. Xbox720 might come out and ICT could still not be enforced in fact.

Nobody knows that for sure. There's been no public commitments to that effect.

It's all speculation on whether they will or won't turn on ICT.

In fact, some believe what they won't turn on until the end of the decade is DOT, not ICT. Under this theory, ICT can be turned on at any time.

 

[22psi]

1. price
2. hdmi 1.3 was not finalized yet
3. mainstream consumers have no need for hdmi

 

[Tap In]

If they come out with an "X360 II" SKU which has the HDMI and/or HD-DVD integrated, that's admitting HD playback has become an issue in next-gen consoles.

I think we've seen all that we're going to see of MS's validation of HD playback.

oh and add to that downloadable HiDef TV shows and movies (now available on the Marketplace)

an HDMI dongle is still a possibilty IMO.

Edit:
not to mention that with the scaler in the 360, you can upscale any media or game to 1080p (VGA for HD DVD, component for games and DL media) or your preferred resolution in between.

that pretty much covers all the Hi Def bases IMO.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

MS probably underestimated how the next-gen optical drive would become a big check list item. If they come out with an "X360 II" SKU which has the HDMI and/or HD-DVD integrated, that's admitting HD playback has become an issue in next-gen consoles.

Disagree.

I don't think MS "underestimated" anything. It's simply that in MS's estimation, next-gen optical drive in their game console was simply not as important as ensuring that the console could launch in '05, and be ramped up in manufacturing throughout '06. (I, and I'd wager most people, would say that was the right decision for MS.)

And in a sense, MS has already acknowleged that HD playback is "an issue" at least to some degree, since they offer the add-on. Given that HD movie playback is not part of the core functionality, the addition of HDMI as an output to the core just can't be justified, particularly given the lack of 1.3 standard at the time of production.

Having said that, If MS does introduce a SKU at some point with integrated HD playback (either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray / combo for that matter), I would expect HDMI to also be integrated into the unit. I have always maintained ever since the add-on was announced, that MS would eventually introduce a new SKU with it integrated (even though MS has denied it). The abolute earliest we would see one is x-mas '07, but more likely to be sometime in '08, if ever.