What would have been the reason for MS not adding hdmi to first 360s

[infinity4]

1, they thought most people wont have hdtvs
2, they thought its gonna make 360 more expensive
3, they couldnt be bothered to add hdmi output
4, they forgot to add hdmi output to 360

if hdmi was on 360...

1, we would not have to worry about tvs not having d-sub or component not accepting 1080p signals, u connect console by hdmi, and its all done & dusted
2, we would get superior picture quality since hdmi sends digital signals















.........................ASSUMING THAT CURRENT 360s ARE NOT CAPABLE OF HDMI output

 

[LightHeaven]

How about that: The final Hdmi 1.3 standard wasnt ready?

But, i think a Hdmi cable is in the works...

 

[infinity4]

this is very old news but...

IGN: Can the X360 send out a digital signal now, or ever?

Microsoft Xbox 360 currently doesn't include a digital out connection for video. Our platform is flexible enough to allow support of a digital connection in the future should we choose to do so. When the Xbox 360 was being developed HDMI was nascent and with our current connections we support what the overwhelming majority of consumers have available to them. It's important to note that the market penetration of 1080p displays is in the single digits. Regardless, for those early adopters who have displays and projectors that support 1080p over VGA and component we have a solution and it is a free upgrade for them. We are watching the market closely and will continue to evaluate our solution in the face of consumer demand, but have no announcements regarding additional cables or connections.

 

[London Geezer]

Heh this is a total troll-fest of a thread, but i think some good could come out of it.

As the 360 GPU likely already had a digital output (IIRC), it IS very strange that MS would to the trouble of actually taking it out.

The question DOES still stand though on whether the 360 is actually capable of digital output. If it is, then a future HDMI cable could work. But the majority of the people "in the know" seem to think that it just doesn't do digital video output, only analog, which would negate a HDMI cable completely.

About "why" they didn't include it, well i guess that at the end of the day a machine targeted for 720p doesn't necessarily need HDMI. It would be nice, but it's not needed. Most people can't even tell the difference between component and HDMI running the same material...

 

[Mintmaster]

1, we would not have to worry about tvs not having d-sub or component not accepting 1080p signals, u connect console by hdmi, and its all done & dusted

You do know that there's a ton of HDTVs out there that don't accept 1080p over HDMI, right? Many of those do, however, accept it over VGA and component.

2, we would get superior picture quality since hdmi sends digital signals

I definately want to see some comparisons to substantiate that claim. For LCD monitors, those with DVI inputs often skimped on the analogue electronics for the VGA input. Monitors with only VGA inputs, especially the earlier models, had image quality indistinguishable from DVI.

 

[infinity4]

but i think they should have given consumers "option" to have hdmi output, instead of forcing people to use vga or component

 

[infinity4]

You do know that there's a ton of HDTVs out there that don't accept 1080p over HDMI, right? Many of those do, however, accept it over VGA and component.

well i never said they shouldnt use 1080p by vga and component,

if tv supports 1080p by component + vga but not by hdmi then they can use that

but if it doesnt support 1080p by compo + vga but by hdmi, what would u say??? would u tell people to buy another tv???

 

[London Geezer]

but i think they should have given consumers "option" to have hdmi output, instead of forcing people to use vga or component

They could have given the option to have anything in there, but at the end of the day, they chose to draw a line where they thought it needed to be drawn, and HDMI was obviously not important enough. Cause it really isn't.

On PS3, with the Bluray player there, it makes more sense (for Sony, mainly for future HDCP reasons and HD sound too), but for MS it just wasn't "needed".

 

[London Geezer]

but if it doesnt support 1080p by compo + vga but by hdmi, what would u say??? would u tell people to buy another tv???

They would tell them to stay away from Sony 1080p TVs (which notoriously refused to take 1080p from anything but HDMI until the W2000), yes.

See a pattern here?

 

[aaaaa00]

Because:

-- HDMI costs more money
-- there were very few TVs that had it in 2005
-- the HDMI1.3 spec wasn't done
-- even now HDMI's still suffering from interoperability issues where things won't sync properly

MS has said a bunch of times now they'll add HDMI when it makes sense.

 

[Ty]

Because:

-- the HDMI1.3 spec wasn't done

Would 1.2 have been that bad to support?

MS has said a bunch of times now they'll add HDMI when it makes sense.

Sure, that would be the excuse of any company in MS' position though, that it's not the "right time". This is after all, the same sort of argument Nintendo touted when it came to Online Play (and they were behind the times it turned out) and now HD. Well maybe not quite the same as Component can give quite a decent PQ but you get my point.

When would the "right time" be for MS to put in HDMI?

FYI - I'm holding out for a 360 w/HDMI and/or HD-DVD built in.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Because:

-- HDMI costs more money
-- there were very few TVs that had it in 2005
-- the HDMI1.3 spec wasn't done
-- even now HDMI's still suffering from interoperability issues where things won't sync properly

MS has said a bunch of times now they'll add HDMI when it makes sense.

But it made sense about a year ago, when the 360 came out. Shouldn't it at least have a digital out so that HDMI and DVI cables could be created?

This is an interesting question, is it really just due to the cost and specs? Why not just use 1.2? As for interoperability problems, can't it be updated later with firmware?

For a long time I assumed it would be able to output HDMI, via custom cable, because I didn't think MS would be so dumb as to completely leave it out of their planning, now I wonder if it was really just a matter of them shaving pennies.

What kind of costs are we talking about?

 

[RobertR1]

Once HDMI 1.3 (and hopefully problem free!!!) is out on receivers and TV's I can see MS offering a HDMI out. Until then, I wouldn't hold my breath. Then again, running component and optical out isn't the end of ze world for me.

 

[silhouette]

I guess it is simply not there because of cost issues. Please correct me if I am mistaken, but doesn't HDMI require a TDMS transmitter? This means another chip needs to be included in the system. Then, if they decided to add HDCP, this adds royalty fees for keys.. At the end, they end up with a more expensive system to produce, and the benefit might be really small for 720p and 1080i set owners. I guess they weight benefit vs cost, and then, did not see a reason to include.

I guess that is exactly the same reason why Sony also cut the number of HDMI ports to 1 while they initially claim they would include 2 in PS3. As it is pretty obvious that RSX does not have enough muscle to render a complex scene in 3960x1080, and almost no people will connect it 2 HDTVs, they must have seen that there is no reason to include a second port, a second TDMS transmitter and drive the cost even higher of an already expensive system.

 

[Rolf N]

IGN: Can the X360 send out a digital signal now, or ever?

Microsoft Xbox 360 currently doesn't include a digital out connection for video. Our platform is flexible enough to allow support of a digital connection in the future should we choose to do so.

It's flexible enough not as in "we can make a cable for that" but as in "we can start soldering an output on the board in a future revision".
The pins on the 360's A/V output are all accounted for. There is no digital video signal on these ports and there aren't enough spare pins to add it.

 

[Tagrineth]

oh my god, that's so brilliant... you used a dollar sign in place of the S! I never would've thought of that one. Brilliant way to make Microsoft sound like they're after our money...

 

[jonabbey]

You do know that there's a ton of HDTVs out there that don't accept 1080p over HDMI, right? Many of those do, however, accept it over VGA and component.

I don't believe you're correct on this. 1080p (1080p60, at least) over any connector has only been around for the last year or so, and those sets that could supported it tended to be the ones that emphasized HDMI to begin with.

Everything I've heard on this topic has been to the effect that 1080p over component is exceedingly rare, and any sets new enough to support 1080p would be more likely to support DVI/HDMI than VGA, given the attainable image quality improvements from DVI/HDMI.

 

[RobertR1]

I don't believe you're correct on this. 1080p (1080p60, at least) over any connector has only been around for the last year or so, and those sets that could supported it tended to be the ones that emphasized HDMI to begin with.

Everything I've heard on this topic has been to the effect that 1080p over component is exceedingly rare, and any sets new enough to support 1080p would be more likely to support DVI/HDMI than VGA, given the attainable image quality improvements from DVI/HDMI.

I know for a fact that the Toshiba DLP does not accept true 1080P over it's HDMI input. However it has a built in scaler to upscale your picture to 1080P.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/806tosh62hm/

Others might also.

 

[SugarCoat]

I know for a fact that the Toshiba DLP does not accept true 1080P over it's HDMI input. However it has a built in scaler to upscale your picture to 1080P.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/806tosh62hm/

Others might also.

many of the early 1080P TVs do this. dont tell anyone though. They might get really really mad they paid thousands for a first generation electronic hardware and got screwed. (who knew this could happen! when i early adopt, i expect it to be problem free and exactly the same as updated versions down the road!)

 

[Carl B]

I know for a fact that the Toshiba DLP does not accept true 1080P over it's HDMI input. However it has a built in scaler to upscale your picture to 1080P.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/806tosh62hm/

Others might also.

Aren't all 1080p DLP sets wobulated right now also? I'm not sure how I feel about that and the 1080p designation, but hey it works out I guess.