What rendering tricks might RSX employ?

[Shifty Geezer]

Speculation time! We all know RSX is looking pretty bandwidth limited when it comes to AA'd, HDR imaging. We also know from KK's recent interview that eDRAM was out of the question because too much would be needed for a frame buffer, which also means no tile rendering. If we assume these are actual in-game options and not marketting features there in theory but not usable in practice, what jiggery-pokery might nVidia + Sony be employing to get around the bandwidth limitations? Are there any cutting-edge, experimental techs out there that might be employed? Could a hefty lump of cache mem appear on the GPU to help out?

Is there any way PS3 could output 1080i 60 fps + HDR + 2x AA?

 

[London Geezer]

I guess some games will run ok at that resolution, though i think the devs might want to use 1080i or 720p instead in order to make their games run a little faster if they feel the need.

When you mentioned "rendering method" i almost fainted. Please... i don't want to see the R word... Ever. Again.


Whoever you are, you know who you are, you know what i'm talking about.

 

[j^aws]

What rendering tricks might RSX employ?

Hmmm...

HOS and HDR on RSX to get a 'football' looking like a real football similar to that image.

Perhaps some CELL post processing to get motion blur like on the feet of that footballer too...

Also, maybe physics aware tesallation to get some nice football/cloth simuations with CELL + RSX. Would be neat...maybe they'll include a geometry shader?

 

[Farid]

maybe they'll include a geometry shader?

If the Cell<=>RSX duo works great, Geometry Shader handled by Cell is not impossible to imagine.

 

[London Geezer]

You evil sneaky bugger.

 

[Farid]

You evil sneaky bugger.

So, the R word was REYES, I guess.

 

[London Geezer]

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!one!

 

[Guden Oden]

Speculation time! We all know RSX is looking pretty bandwidth limited when it comes to AA'd, HDR imaging.

That would be true if tomorrow's games only do traditional multitexturing. If the title spends multiple, perhaps dozens, of cycles on pixel shader programs instead the picture changes somewhat.

 

[Jon Brittan]

You evil sneaky bugger.

Not an Arsenal fan l-b?

(Good lad )


On the subject of rendering, I'd sooner have more realistic players than a more realistic football if we're looking at order of priority.

 

[London Geezer]

You evil sneaky bugger.

Not an Arsenal fan l-b?

(Good lad )


On the subject of rendering, I'd sooner have more realistic players than a more realistic football if we're looking at order of priority.

Yes. Starting from the legs.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Speculation time! We all know RSX is looking pretty bandwidth limited when it comes to AA'd, HDR imaging.

That would be true if tomorrow's games only do traditional multitexturing. If the title spends multiple, perhaps dozens, of cycles on pixel shader programs instead the picture changes somewhat.

How so? Can you give an example of bandwidth usage on complex shaders or something to indicate how the bandwidth may not be a limiting factor? What's the minimum BW required for 60 fps, 1980x1020, 128bit HDR, 2x AA? Where's 'Metrics' Jaws when you need him?

 

[pc999]

How so? Can you give an example of bandwidth usage on complex shaders or something to indicate how the bandwidth may not be a limiting factor? What's the minimum BW required for 60 fps, 1980x1020, 128bit HDR, 2x AA? Where's 'Metrics' Jaws when you need him?

I think that 1980X1020 @ 30FPS, 64bit HDR and 2XAA would be frighten enough (for PS3 case).

 

[London Geezer]

Not to sound pessimistic, but will HDR work with AA at the same time on PS3? Cause as it stands, it's either one or the other on NVIDIA GPUs...

So, the load might be a bit lighter if only there's no AA on.

 

[ralexand]

What's a geometry shader?

 

[blakjedi]

I think that 1980X1020 @ 30FPS, 64bit HDR and 2XAA would be frighten enough (for PS3 case).

If any console could do that.. I'd be a monkeys uncle

 

[pc999]

I think that 1980X1020 @ 30FPS, 64bit HDR and 2XAA would be frighten enough (for PS3 case).

If any console could do that.. I'd be a monkeys uncle

Ii is suposed that XB can do 720@60FPS (~same amount of pixels/s), with 64bit HDR and 4x AA. But in the case of XB with they SmartMemory (edram) you will have plenty of BW, in PS3 you will not.I wonder if in the end we will ever see better qualitity in it.

 

[mckmas8808]

Ii is suposed that XB can do 720@60FPS (~same amount of pixels/s), with 64bit HDR and 4x AA. But in the case of XB with they SmartMemory (edram) you will have plenty of BW, in PS3 you will not.I wonder if in the end we will ever see better qualitity in it.

Not saying that this is incorrect but to me what this post says and some others in this thread post the PS3 has already lost in the graphics department. Is this the case of truth or is it the case of not enough information? If the 360 can do what pc999 says yet the PS3 can't do what blakjedi said then its already over. Too sad.

 

[marconelly!]

Is there any way PS3 could output 1080i 60 fps + HDR + 2x AA?

Keep in mind that 1080i is 1980x540 resolution. I think the answer is yes for sure for 1080i and 720p (simillar number of pixels), because you can output 60FPS under those conditions on a PCs today, with 6800 or simillar video card.

Ii is suposed that XB can do 720@60FPS (~same amount of pixels/s), with 64bit HDR and 4x AA.

1080p has approx 2.3x as many pixels as 720p. Also, don't count on seeing 64bit HDR on Xbox 360 often. From what I've read, it's technically possible, but much slower than it's 32bit solution.

I also don't know if RSX is bandwidth limited as some people keep saying. Isn't it supposed to have something like 57GB/s total bandwidth to both memory pools?

 

[London Geezer]

That's what i've been saying all along.

1080i/720p for 60fps games, or some 30fps games too, depending on what the devs decide.

1080p only for 30fps games.

Makes sense. Though i'm sure devs will want to focus on 1080i/720p since the gain in performance might be more appealing than a bump in resolution.

also, if a game runs fine at 1080p even at 60fps, they'll go for that. Not sure there will be that many games like that but hey at least there's the option if the devs feel like going for it.

 

[gurgi]

Remember how we thought all games would be 60fps this gen?