What does it take to make more interactive environments on the xbox 360

[Hazuki Ryu]

I hope this is the first thread about this matter on the xbox 360.

I have been wondering for a while now what exactly would it take to make crysis like interactive environments on the xbox 360?

Would it take more processing power on the CPU or it's all about the programers wanting to do it?

I'm not sure if this phisics and destructible/interactive environments are connected to the CPU only that was just a guess, I would like to know more about this.

I know we have Half Life 2 but thats just a bit outdated now.

 

[AlNom]

Battlefield Bad Company is looking to offer the same sort of destroyable environments as Crysis, even the trees.

 

[Hazuki Ryu]

Battlefield Bad Company is looking to offer the same sort of destroyable environments as Crysis, even the trees.

That sounds nice, I have been thinking what would really make Gears of War 2 look better and be cooler than the first one?

The only answer that i could came up with is even better animations better AI more interactivity with everything, then i thought is that possible on the 360? What kind of resourses does it use?

I think this 3 things would really make more difference in the game than even higher resolution textures, shadows or higher polygon counts and use something thats not the gpu for doing it am i wrong?

 

[woundingchaney]

memory would be the largest issue I would imagine

 

[AlNom]

Oh and don't forget there is that Euphoria engine that Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is using.

 

[woundingchaney]

Are we talking about large scale open environments (like Crysis) or any environment featuring wide range destruction and deformation??

 

[Mobius1aic]

Even Crytek's Cevat Yerli stated that "the 360 and PS3's CPU and GPU are more than adequate for a port of Crysis, it's more a of a memory issue."

And of course Battlefield: Bad Company is coming to both consoles and it has destructible buildings, procedural at that fact. Both being a steady set of hardware to develope for, it's easy for devs to make use of both systems as compared to PC developers that have to make a game scalable for a wide range of hardware, as many PC titles as there are out there, only a select few actually make what I would call "full use" of PC hardware, instead of losing alot of efficiency in wasted operations that otherwise could've been used for the actual game. Games like HL2/Source games, Far Cry, Crysis (it's "requirements/recommendations" are "high", but the game is extremely efficient for what it's doing all together), Call of Duty 4, and some others all make great use of the hardware they are running on. Not to mention all those games will run on hardware below the required specs, hell Far Cry will run on Intel GMA 845 (aka Intel Xtreme Graphics 2), albeit the GPU will actually fail to render the entire scene, but it runs never the less, I beat it like that on my old Toshiba Satellite series tablet PC haha.

The next real step with games I think is interaction, Crysis was/is the beginning of this, so I think we'll see more emphasis on CPU and memory and more instances of GPUs being used for real interaction physics (not effects physics). Sure theres is more graphical output to be had in some games, but shaders also do wonders in games too, however, environmental interaction is the next big step in producing life like games.

I agree with woundingchaney though, memory is the biggest issue involving environmental deformation, the current consoles really don't have too much to work with, but they do have HDDs for data caching, which is no real substitute for real RAM but it definetly helps, just ask the guys at Insomniac or Naughty Dog. The Wii though I think is possibly the most properly equiped console in terms of memory as compared to it's other components, however the overall title goes to the PSP. Too bad they would just have a difficult time with high level procedural interactions, but you can still do a good job with scripts like in Red Faction 1/2.

 

[Hazuki Ryu]

Are we talking about large scale open environments (like Crysis) or any environment featuring wide range destruction and deformation??

I mean all types of envoironment not only big ones like crysis.

Do u guys think that Gears of War 2 could mantain the same graphical quality of the first one while having alot more interactive environments?

 

[AlphaWolf]

I mean all types of envoironment not only big ones like crysis.

Do u guys think that Gears of War 2 could mantain the same graphical quality of the first one while having alot more interactive environments?

The basics are already there for physics and stuff, you're just talking about adding more.

EGM: Graphically speaking, is there room to improve?

CB: I think there's more that we could squeeze out of the 360. You get used to the limitations and potential that this console has, and then you can really start exploring. I guarantee that, in the future, the technology of what we do here will squeeze every bit of coolness out of [the 360]. If there's a follow-up, it'll definitely look better than the first.

So you would have to think it will be more in some ways, but whether they chose to add more destructible environments is a design decision.

 

[Hazuki Ryu]

What do you guys think of halo 3 on this ?
I think it's quite a bit above average since the vehicle destruction is so cool you can play soccer with the warthog's wheels if you want and theres a good number of objects that you can move.

 

[woundingchaney]

What do you guys think of halo 3 on this ?
I think it's quite a bit above average since the vehicle destruction is so cool you can play soccer with the warthog's wheels if you want and theres a good number of objects that you can move.

Halo 3 is a good example of scale and on screen "mayhem" though it lacks in environment destruction/deformation. For the most part the objects and environments within Halo 3 are static, there are a few objects within the game that can be moved or displaced at any given time but this really isnt a good example of environment destruction/deformation (imo).

 

[Hazuki Ryu]

Halo 3 is a good example of scale and on screen "mayhem" though it lacks in environment destruction/deformation. For the most part the objects and environments within Halo 3 are static, there are a few objects within the game that can be moved or displaced at any given time but this really isnt a good example of environment destruction/deformation (imo).

I agree that it isnt a good example of envoironment destruction/deformation.
Still when you compare it to this gen standards it stands out a bit there a very good number of objects you can move though trees dont break and rocks don't move but many things you would expect to see moving do and even some others that at least I wasn't expecting.

Then theres some smooth but nice to see touches, like the trees moving with the wind, bushes and small trees bending as you touch all those small touches make the game look more belivable and a bit above the standards for this gen, at least the standards we've seen on most UE3 games COD games etc.

Also the water phisics are a part of envoironment interaction and they look sweet.

 

[deepbrown]

I agree that it isnt a good example of envoironment destruction/deformation.
Still when you compare it to this gen standards it stands out a bit there a very good number of objects you can move though trees dont break and rocks don't move but many things you would expect to see moving do and even some others that at least I wasn't expecting.

Then theres some smooth but nice to see touches, like the trees moving with the wind, bushes and small trees bending as you touch all those small touches make the game look more belivable and a bit above the standards for this gen, at least the standards we've seen on most UE3 games COD games etc.

Also the water phisics are a part of envoironment interaction and they look sweet.

Though perhaps off the mark. heavenly Swords movement of objects (pots, crates, people) was all physics based and is really impressive IMO. Plus the destruction of the trees in the jeep chase in Uncharted is pretty cool - reminiscent of Crysis.

However, multiplatform games...or 360 games I think have destructible are Battlefield, Star Wars, Far Cry 2 and there's another only announced for PC/360....had trees falling over and everything. I'll have a look around.

 

[AlNom]

Actually, if you have an Xbox, try and get a cheap copy of Otogi 1 and 2. You could practically destroy every human-made structure, and the terrain could deform if you pounded an enemy into it. It was really fun, and the game even rated you on the amount of destruction you did.

You can check out some old trailers:
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/879.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/30.html

It's quite a beautiful game (before you start destroying things).

 

[archangelmorph]

Actually, if you have an Xbox, try and get a cheap copy of Otogi 1 and 2. You could practically destroy every human-made structure, and the terrain could deform if you pounded an enemy into it. It was really fun, and the game even rated you on the amount of destruction you did.

You can check out some old trailers:
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/879.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/30.html

It's quite a beautiful game (before you start destroying things).

Ah my long lost love!

I'm vehemently annoyed Koei are too blind to see the potential of an Otogi three release on the Xbox360..

Especially after recent news of DMC4's uber sales success & even having the demo of the game go on to be the fastest ever game demo to reach 1 million downloads in the history of XBL..

C'mon Koei!!

Make it happen!!

 

[Hazuki Ryu]

Actually, if you have an Xbox, try and get a cheap copy of Otogi 1 and 2. You could practically destroy every human-made structure, and the terrain could deform if you pounded an enemy into it. It was really fun, and the game even rated you on the amount of destruction you did.

You can check out some old trailers:
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/879.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/30.html

It's quite a beautiful game (before you start destroying things).

that looks nice never had a chance of playing it on the original xbox but maybe ill get it if its compatible with the 360 i'll check it out later.

 

[AlNom]

that looks nice never had a chance of playing it on the original xbox but maybe ill get it if its compatible with the 360 i'll check it out later.

Unfortunately it's not backward compatible.

 

[zed]

That sounds nice, I have been thinking what would really make Gears of War 2 look better and be cooler than the first one?

gears of war + a lot of others use precalculated lighting, thus if u could sudden destroy a wall youre gonna be left with its shadow lying on the ground
would would look terrible. the only way is to have a dynamic shading method which typically take quite a bit more performance to achieve

 

[Mobius1aic]

I just watched a video last night on a supposed "secret" demoing of Far Cry 2, where the games effects and what not were all showed off. The fire and weather effects were incredible, especially how wind effected everything, the grass, trees, how fire spread, it was really impressive. I love Crytek, but man they might have just gotten trumped......but also it'll come down to scalability and game requirements to do all those things. Dunia is a great engine, and it's going to be interesting to see it used on the Xbox 360 version of the game, and I think it's coming to PS3 as well. I'm sure they'll be requiring a HDD for the 360 version no doubt.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I just watched a video last night on a supposed "secret" demoing of Far Cry 2, where the games effects and what not were all showed off. The fire and weather effects were incredible, especially how wind effected everything, the grass, trees, how fire spread, it was really impressive. I love Crytek, but man they might have just gotten trumped.......

CryEngine 2 does all of that. Extremely well too. I don't know if its in the game or not but its possible to create some incredible wind effects in the editor that interact with everything, trees, grass, objects, smoke, water etc... You can even create hurricanes that will rip trees right out of the ground.

And then there's the nuke effects...

Don't get me wrong, FC2 looks very good aswell but and don't think its particulary beyond Crysis in terms of interactivity and environmental effects.