What Anime are you watching now?

[eloic]

Oh, and I just stopped watching Mushoku Tensei. It's AMAZING how this filth is being watched by so many people. I tried understanding or looking from another POV when I saw the first flirtations/dirty thoughts of a ~40 YEAR OLD man with little girls who're not even pubescent. It's so disgusting... I was just watching the episode about Rudeus' birthday and the bedroom scene where he touches her vagina almost made me puke.

Seriously, I love anime and many "Japan things/extravaganza", but what's with this pedo stuff?! What's wrong with these people?

EDIT: also, no, being unfaithful to your woman is not funny. Paul was unfaithful to his wife and yes, it was depicted as something bad but it quickly transformed into a comical element. It looks like this series are created by minds from men who can't have a normal/healthy sexual life, so they retort to this dirty stuff to feed on stupid, disgusting sexual fantasies you'll only have if you're sick. I know I'm ranting way too much, and no, I'm not discovering just now the reality of anime, there's no lesson I have to learn, it's just that as much as I love many, many things from Japanese culture, I can't stand these flirtations with sexual misconduct. I like dirty stuff, but not if children are involved.

Aaaaaaand just a few weeks after this happened, I have a related comment regarding another anime.

I started watching Violet Evergarden a few days ago. I knew she was a child when the major said "I love you" and well... I didn't want to look at it as a romantic feeling, but I've just watched the episode where a 14 year old princess is engaged to a 24 year old man and they exchange LOVE letters. He even said that he wanted to touch her (through a doll's letter, I know, but in no way this was depicted as despicable because of the age gap involving a child).

SERIOUSLY, ANIME STUDIOS, WHAT. THE. FUCK???!!!

I love anime, but fuck, I just can't stand this shit!!

 

[Deleted member 2197]

Aaaaaaand just a few weeks after this happened, I have a related comment regarding another anime.

I started watching Violet Evergarden a few days ago. I knew she was a child when the major said "I love you" and well... I didn't want to look at it as a romantic feeling, but I've just watched the episode where a 14 year old princess is engaged to a 24 year old man and they exchange LOVE letters. He even said that he wanted to touch her (through a doll's letter, I know, but in no way this was depicted as despicable because of the age gap involving a child).

SERIOUSLY, ANIME STUDIOS, WHAT. THE. FUCK???!!!

I love anime, but fuck, I just can't stand this shit!!

You take it way too seriously. The same concept is found in many Chinese, Korean and Japanese dramas so it really isn't isolated to anime.
At least for me Violet Evergarden was an exceptional series, as well as the movies that followed.

 

[eloic]

You take it way too seriously.

I think that's the issue, precisely. We condone paedophilia, it's not that serious, right?

This doesn't mean that I don't understand the context. Many horrors happen "normally" in other cultures or in another time, yet we acknowledge them as what they are. Today we wouldn't condone slavery or other stuff. Why is paedophilia "not so important" all of a sudden?

I think the issue is that most anime lovers are just used to it, and I think this reality is horrible.

I insist, I've always loved anime but I refuse to normalise this shit.

BTW, I do like Violet Evergarden, I think it's lovely and I know that, as far as I've seen, the words of the major may not necessarily imply paedophilia, but what I just saw about princess Charlotte IS.

If we keep consuming this stuff instead of complaining, nothing will change.

 

[Bondrewd]

We condone paedophilia, it's not that serious, right?

itsa drawing

and I think this reality is horrible.

It's a drawing.

but I refuse to normalise this shit.

Well too bad, no one in Asia cares.

 

[eloic]

itsa drawing

It's a drawing.

Wow, thanks for enlightening me, I didn't know that. Please, receive my most heartfelt applause.

 

[Bondrewd]

Wow, thanks for enlightening me, I didn't know that. Please, receive my most heartfelt applause.

Nice.
Can I complain about rapist catholic priests?

 

[eloic]

Nice.
Can I complain about rapist catholic priests?

Of course, do. You know, one can complain about more than one thing at the same time. ;-)

EDIT: OTOH, why are you asking me about that?

 

[Bondrewd]

EDIT: OTOH, why are you asking me about that?

I dunno even, it's mostly something as silly as complaining about age gap romance being a thing.
It's old as balls and is a part of tons of good literature no less so complaining about it in anime is odd.

 

[digitalwanderer]

If you don't like, don't watch. Just like me and hentai. I don't enjoy it so I don't watch it, if a series makes you angry/uncomfortable I'd suggest you stop watching it.

 

[eloic]

If you don't like, don't watch. Just like me and hentai. I don't enjoy it so I don't watch it, if a series makes you angry/uncomfortable I'd suggest you stop watching it.

Well, that's obvious, digi. Of course I won't watch, but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion and express that opinion.

On hentai, BTW, I'm not against it if it doesn't involve children. I'm perfectly ok with dirty content, I already said that, as long as it doesn't involve a "condoned" act of paedophilia or other bad stuff. I mean, I'm also ok with bad stuff happening, as long as it's depicted as something bad.

 

[orangpelupa]

You take it way too seriously. The same concept is found in many Chinese, Korean and Japanese dramas so it really isn't isolated to anime.
At least for me Violet Evergarden was an exceptional series, as well as the movies that followed.

yep

The minimum age for marriage is quite low indeed.
even nowadays in asia, 10+ years age gap in marriage is still quite normal (although not as normal as a few years ago AFAIK).

and the setting of violet evergarden is in old era (maybe long before 1900~) and AFAIK at that era, even kids already "pre-ordered" by way older people with powerful family. Uh... pre-ordered? that's not the right words...

hmm. maybe spin these talks into a new thread? something like "Child pre-ordering culture, and minimum age in marriage in the world" ?

 

[eloic]

yep

The minimum age for marriage is quite low indeed.
even nowadays in asia, 10+ years age gap in marriage is still quite normal (although not as normal as a few years ago AFAIK).

and the setting of violet evergarden is in old era (maybe long before 1900~) and AFAIK at that era, even kids already "pre-ordered" by way older people with powerful family. Uh... pre-ordered? that's not the right words...

hmm. maybe spin these talks into a new thread? something like "Child pre-ordering culture, and minimum age in marriage in the world" ?

I insist, I'm aware of different contexts. I'm only complaining that pedophilia is shown as something that's just fine, not wrong. In Mushoku Tensei, we're talking about a 40 year old man fantasizing AND doing stuff even with prepubescent girls. Ew? The anime does nothing to depict those acts as nothing but kinda cool. But that's ok, it seems. Guys, that's wrong and it saddens me to see that I'm the only one seeing it.

In Violet Evergarden it's less blatant, but we're still talking about a 24 year old male speaking about touching a 14 year old girl. Again, it's not just the age gap, it's that at that time it involved a young girl. We're not talking about 30 year old man and 20 year old girl.

 

[Laurent06]

I insist, I'm aware of different contexts. I'm only complaining that pedophilia is shown as something that's just fine, not wrong. In Mushoku Tensei, we're talking about a 40 year old man fantasizing AND doing stuff even with prepubescent girls. Ew? The anime does nothing to depict those acts as nothing but kinda cool. But that's ok, it seems. Guys, that's wrong and it saddens me to see that I'm the only one seeing it.

In Violet Evergarden it's less blatant, but we're still talking about a 24 year old male speaking about touching a 14 year old girl. Again, it's not just the age gap, it's that at that time it involved a young girl. We're not talking about 30 year old man and 20 year old girl.

Of course with our 21st century western civilization look this is disgusting. But what do you propose? Censor it? Or even destroy all copies? Shall we do the same with Nabokov? And what about that prince who kisses a sleeping lady? IMHO displaying a warning at the start of the movie/cartoon/book/etc. is the thing to do.

 

[eloic]

Of course with our 21st century western civilization look this is disgusting.

Our 21st century anime industry does not depict it as disgusting many times, though. It's shown as something normal, something not to make a fuss about and something even sexy/arousing.

But what do you propose? Censor it? Or even destroy all copies? Shall we do the same with Nabokov? And what about that prince who kisses a sleeping lady? IMHO displaying a warning at the start of the movie/cartoon/book/etc. is the thing to do.

The issue is not an if, but a how. I "propose" that even if some things are depicted, they're not shown as they're ok or even cool. Is that so difficult? We do just that with slavery, racism, killings, inequality, lying, family/relationship abuse, etc. Why is then pedophilia something that's fine to show as a NON issue?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Our 21st century anime industry does not depict it as disgusting many times, though. It's shown as something normal, something not to make a fuss about and something even sexy/arousing.

That's the problem. How do you portray something that is accurate to the time period and at the same time is socially acceptable? You don't.

You either portray something that is socially acceptable but historically inaccurate ... or ... you portray something that is historically accurate but socially unacceptable.

IMO, there's no right or wrong here. Heck, in Japan, pedophilia in the form of child pornography wasn't even illegal much less frowned upon until 1999 and they are one of the more advanced countries in Asia when it comes to this stuff. Many Asian countries have no laws regarding this and it isn't necessarily frowned upon there. Hence why Thailand is a popular destination for certain types of people (bleh). And even with those laws, it's still quite prevalent in Japan although each year that goes by see's it diminishing in acceptance. My mother's bar in Japan in the 80's had women from age 14 and up working in them as companions for male customers. Most of which, unfortunately were "sold" at an even younger age to pay off family debts. Some companion bars had girls even younger than that serving and being drinking companions for customers. And all of it was legal.

So, you have the 21st century anime industry that is mostly targetting Japan and other Asian countries where things like this don't have nearly the stigmata as they do in Western countries and then surprised (although perhaps you aren't surprised) that they are not only not disgusted by it but also attempt to portray historical relations between men and women in a historically accurate manner?

Yes, as a Westerner, it can certainly be unpalatable. For me, however, it comes down to a question of whether it's being done gratuitously (as seen in a lot of Ecchi) or in an attempt to portray historically accurate settings relevant to the time period of the anime. The former I won't watch, the latter I will.

All this said, I totally understand why you would be disgusted and wouldn't want to watch it. This is just to explain why it happens and that it isn't being done purely for the enjoyment of pedophiles.

Regards,
SB

 

[digitalwanderer]

Slightly on topic, but I'm really enjoying Jobless Reincarnation now. I liked the twist in the last episode a lot, gives me some serious hope that it might be really good.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Hey Eloyc? I do get how it triggers you and can outrage your moral sense. I've had people close to me who were molested as kids and I think all pedophiles should be put to death since it's an incurable disease. Seriously.

But...

This isn't real, it is a story. It also wasn't the whole basis for the anime, more like a guy who's 40 being reincarnated freaking out for a bit and that was just incidental. Again, I respect your choice to be outraged and offended and it made me damned uncomfortable and was really borderline for me but the way it was part of the story made it acceptable and it wasn't something that was overplayed or a side plot.

Just didn't want you to think I support pedophilia, I'm insanely protective of children. Mine or anyone else's, if I can prevent that from happening to anyone I will. Having kids really opened my eyes to just how many awful parents there are out there, and I decided that I'd always speak up/support any kid I thought was in trouble or asked for help. Got me on some people's shit list, but I'd prefer to be on those kinds of people's shit list. (Not pedophilia, just abuse. "Just"?!?!)

 

[eloic]

That's the problem. How do you portray something that is accurate to the time period and at the same time is socially acceptable? You don't.

You either portray something that is socially acceptable but historically inaccurate ... or ... you portray something that is historically accurate but socially unacceptable.

IMO, there's no right or wrong here. Heck, in Japan, pedophilia in the form of child pornography wasn't even illegal much less frowned upon until 1999 and they are one of the more advanced countries in Asia when it comes to this stuff. Many Asian countries have no laws regarding this and it isn't necessarily frowned upon there. Hence why Thailand is a popular destination for certain types of people (bleh). And even with those laws, it's still quite prevalent in Japan although each year that goes by see's it diminishing in acceptance. My mother's bar in Japan in the 80's had women from age 14 and up working in them as companions for male customers. Most of which, unfortunately were "sold" at an even younger age to pay off family debts. Some companion bars had girls even younger than that serving and being drinking companions for customers. And all of it was legal.

So, you have the 21st century anime industry that is mostly targetting Japan and other Asian countries where things like this don't have nearly the stigmata as they do in Western countries and then surprised (although perhaps you aren't surprised) that they are not only not disgusted by it but also attempt to portray historical relations between men and women in a historically accurate manner?

Yes, as a Westerner, it can certainly be unpalatable. For me, however, it comes down to a question of whether it's being done gratuitously (as seen in a lot of Ecchi) or in an attempt to portray historically accurate settings relevant to the time period of the anime. The former I won't watch, the latter I will.

All this said, I totally understand why you would be disgusted and wouldn't want to watch it. This is just to explain why it happens and that it isn't being done purely for the enjoyment of pedophiles.

Regards,
SB

Hey Eloyc? I do get how it triggers you and can outrage your moral sense. I've had people close to me who were molested as kids and I think all pedophiles should be put to death since it's an incurable disease. Seriously.

But...

This isn't real, it is a story. It also wasn't the whole basis for the anime, more like a guy who's 40 being reincarnated freaking out for a bit and that was just incidental. Again, I respect your choice to be outraged and offended and it made me damned uncomfortable and was really borderline for me but the way it was part of the story made it acceptable and it wasn't something that was overplayed or a side plot.

Just didn't want you to think I support pedophilia, I'm insanely protective of children. Mine or anyone else's, if I can prevent that from happening to anyone I will. Having kids really opened my eyes to just how many awful parents there are out there, and I decided that I'd always speak up/support any kid I thought was in trouble or asked for help. Got me on some people's shit list, but I'd prefer to be on those kinds of people's shit list. (Not pedophilia, just abuse. "Just"?!?!)

For the first time in this conversation, I get these unequivocally empathetic (and detailed) replies and I thank you both for that.

As I said, I understand that some awful (at least to us) things can/must be depicted, and I understand that other societies have other standards. What I don't understand is Western viewers enjoying that (or not caring about it, not even feeling uncomfortable). I've watched lots of animes and other series that do that. In fact, it's the normal thing to do: awful things happen and even if those things can be normal in other places or time, we now see them as such. OTOH, unfortunately, yes, most of this pedo shit is gratuitous, indeed.

Mentioning again the two animes I discussed about, I can come to terms with Violet Evergarden because the princess was at least 14 years old, the whole thing wasn't very detailed, and it didn't seem to be portrayed in a clearly positive way, but with Mushoku Tensei I just can't. Rudeus is ~40 years old and he fantasized about Sylphiette, who was like 8, and when he touched Eris' vagina, the girl wasn't even a teenager AND the whole thing is not depicted as something shameful, but... funny, even. Like cute mischief. ;-P There's no internal dialog with Rudeus thinking that maybe that reincarnation messed up his mind whatsoever, he just keeps being an adult trapped in the body of a little kid, he's a pervert (not just a simple adult on adult or even child on child pervert), he doesn't regret it and the series makes it seem cool. It made me angry because I was starting to really like the series, but I can't.

What puzzles me is the reaction I got here (and other places, as well). Not a single "yeah, that made me feel uncomfortable, too" or anything of the sort, but condescending replies and even sarcasm ("it's a cartoon!", no shit, I didn't know that...).

 

[digitalwanderer]

It made me feel uncomfortable as hell and I didn't like the way they handled it, but I didn't find it so out of place/character for the situation. The series picks up a lot when he gets older, I'm digging the second season. The most recent episode actually shocked/surprised me for some twists in the story. I think the anime has potential even though it had some rough spots starting out.

It's fine if you don't agree, it's just a matter of opinion and what you choose to watch/not watch. I don't watch stuff that makes me feel uncomfortable, I don't see the point.

 

[Davros]

What about the octopi, can they give consent?