What’s the price of switching from console to PC?

[Billy Idol]

That's not the same. Moving a mouse cursor with a thumbpad is pretty poor control. Proper controller support means changing the indirect instruction giving of mouse with direct control of the avatar. In the case of Torchlight, it's the difference between clicking where you want the character to walk or which creature to attack, and moving and attacking with the character directly. You can't map that with a workaround - it needs implementation at the game level. Well, I suppose you could take joystick input and convert that to mouse clicks in that direction right next to the avatar, and then attacks also in that direction, but that'd be prone to issues.

Exactly. That is why all this programs letting you keys and functions to the gamepad are often not a big help.

I just want to emphasize again that Steam thinks gamepad and TV support is important. That is why they have now the TV mode beta of Steam which allows you to control everything with gamepad from couch.

Maybe they just prepare for next gen consoles and team up with Sony for the new PS4.

 

[poopypoo]

So, Shifty, then, your argument is now that PCs are expensive and have inferior ergonomics? I thought this was an honest question about the price of moving to PC gaming. really, it's a shame you didn't just latch on to the part where I agreed with you: "even as the price of consoles gets less and less "worth it", there will be more and more games which are console exclusive which are must-play games. So ultimately, the whole debate has almost nothing to do with hardware... at all."

So you can see, my comment, really, had nothing to do with the value of the PC as a gaming platform, and only to do with so many people's attitude that PC gaming is about maxing out sliders. The advantages to most high-end GPUs are so trivial that I find this to be insulting to the intelligence. The advantages to PC gaming in general, I believe, speak for themselves. Of course we own all the current consoles, mainly because my wife is obsessed with certain franchises. And they're ok. Kinda slow (mainly loading time issues). But fine, plenty of fun games and excellent controllers for the money.

 

[almighty]

I find it funny that you guys are dismissing software and methods you've never used.


I use a £3 PS2 dual shock 2 to usb adaptor and it works a treat in all the driving and fighing games I play.

For everything else key board and mouse amd superior.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I find it funny that you guys are dismissing software and methods you've never used.

So how is trying torchlight on PC "dismissing a method I've never used"?

For everything else key board and mouse amd superior.

That's subjective. KB+M is different. Some people, myself included, don't prefer KB+M in a lot of games. That's why knowing controllers aren't always supported in games we'd like to play is another consideration when contemplating switching to PC.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So, Shifty, then, your argument is now that PCs are expensive and have inferior ergonomics?

I don't really have an argument. I have a set of considerations. Price and subjective ergonomics are a part of that, and I'm starting to come to some conclusions on those parts thanks to this thread.

 

[almighty]

So how is trying torchlight on PC "dismissing a method I've never used.

You have not used third party software that hacks the support for pads in.


Its much much better the crap built in to games.

I used to think like that about kb/m but now having got so used to them they dominate every game genre except driving, fighting and sports

 

[fearsomepirate]

I, like Shifty, switched from PC to console. I played PC games from 1989-2003. In 2003, I got so angry at the hoops I had to jump through to make NWN run that I bought a Gamecube. A couple years later, I got so angry at WinXP that I formatted my HDD and installed Ubuntu. The next computer I bought was a 2007 MacBook, which I adore. When I passed the written exams for the doctoral program, I bought a PS3 (I think is was $199 used).

It does seem that what you spend on hardware, you make back in savings on software, especially if you don't build a high-end rig.

Personally, I am done with Windows, so that means I am done with PC gaming. The only way I'd consider buying a PC is if either MS drops their crap and creates a *nix-based OS, or if Apple totally flubs everything and ruins what they've got going now.

Especially now at the total ass end of this generation, a $400 PC will destroy a PS3

That's about twice what a PS3 costs. And will it still be able to run games once the next-gen consoles hit. After all, if you built a $400 PC in 2005 (2012 dollars), it would destroy a PS2, but it would have a tough time with Modern Warfare 2.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I used to think like that about kb/m but now having got so used to them they dominate every game genre except driving, fighting and sports

It's not about destroying the competition - I don't play competitively. It's about being comfortable. I hate the disassociation between mouse and avatar as you get in Torchlight. I also like sitting back and using dual thumbsticks in shooters. Some implementations leave a bit to be desired, like Borderlands where fine aiming is very hard, but I don't want to be sat up at a desk to play, or lounging on a sofa with a mouse or trackpad evne if they give perfect accuracy. I like the dual-stick+button interface and want to use it. Thankfully I can on plenty of PC games. Sadly I can't on all games, and as it's an afterthought for PC developers rather than a major target, it'll be hit-and-miss. If there are utilities that can help tweak a game to work with controllers, all the worse IMO because that means devs won't bother and they'll leave the tweaks to do the job, which is added faf I just don't want. I'm crossing my fingers that Steam or Win 8/Live mandates controller support giving gamers the choice of both on PC.

It's worth noting I have a Dual Shock 2 to PC adaptor round here somewhere and used it with Star Control some time back. although a Sega Master System controller on Amiga was the pinnacle.

 

[mrcorbo]

So how is trying torchlight on PC "dismissing a method I've never used"?

That's subjective. KB+M is different. Some people, myself included, don't prefer KB+M in a lot of games. That's why knowing controllers aren't always supported in games we'd like to play is another consideration when contemplating switching to PC.

It is exceedingly rare for PC games whose control schemes could map well to a controller to not have controller support. Mass Effect 3 is the only one that comes to mind, in fact. The lack of controller support in that is flat out bizarre.

For games where KB+M are commonly considered to be the superior control method (Diablo-style games, RTS games etc.) it is more rare. I suspect, though, that the number of gamers who are interested in games in these genres that would be disappointed that they didn't support gamepad controls is dwarfed by the number of players who would be pleased that, unlike the consoles, the PC offers KB+M support for these types of games.

 

[poopypoo]

Personally, I am done with Windows, so that means I am done with PC gaming. The only way I'd consider buying a PC is if either MS drops their crap and creates a *nix-based OS, or if Apple totally flubs everything and ruins what they've got going now.

That's about twice what a PS3 costs. And will it still be able to run games once the next-gen consoles hit. After all, if you built a $400 PC in 2005 (2012 dollars), it would destroy a PS2, but it would have a tough time with Modern Warfare 2.

I think it's fine if you don't want a gaming PC. To me it seems like a non-question because if I am going to build a PC which surfs nets, does web design, and watches movies, all I have to do is make sure it has a proper PCIE slot, and when I decide to spend $120, it becomes a console as well. But I totally respect if you'd rather have a console. They're simple, and fairly cheap, and they buy a lot of game dev houses so they won;t make PC games. Regardless, I only posted what I posted because the thread title is "what's the price...". I didn't realize it was just another Console vs. PC thread.

 

[poopypoo]

It is exceedingly rare for PC games whose control schemes could map well to a controller to not have controller support. Mass Effect 3 is the only one that comes to mind, in fact. The lack of controller support in that is flat out bizarre.

I'm glad you brought this up. Seems like a major piece of FUD in here. Who doesn't use a Joystick remapping program anyway? It's like having all the benefits of a console but total freedom. If it's too hard, then just use a console.

 

[Sigfried1977]

You have not used third party software that hacks the support for pads in.


Its much much better the crap built in to games.

No, it's most definitely not better. Stuff like Xpadder may be able to map your mouse movement to a thumb stick, but it's not gonna offer the subtle aim assists of a proper controller implementation (which is rather crucial for shooting with a tiny thumb stick imo, especially if you aren't in it for the glory). It's not gonna provide analog player movement either. Your left thumb stick simply becomes a WASD setup.

That said, unless controller support doesn't make a lick of sense in a game, it's usually implemented, and it's generally implemented well. (just plug in your 360 controller and you're done.)

 

[liolio]

HOnestly when it comes to control I.m happy with some PC games not considering pad, for quiet some genre is way poorer than Kb+M
Still I wonder there could be innovation on the matter, like a portable devive that would have say a trackball and quiet some keys put together in an ergonomic fashion (may be something akin to fighting sticks that would rest on your knees).
May have been done without success already, some PC games require quiet some concentration and I would suspect players like to be in an office like situation.

 

[poopypoo]

Yeah, when it comes to PC-exclusive shooters, I can understand, controller is just going to fail. Of course every console port is too easy w kb and mouse, so it goes both ways. For other genres, I can't see why you can't map a controller. If anything, it's lazy ports that are sometimes buggy when you map the middle mouse button and stuff.

 

[Davros]

cant believe some people are complaining that some games not having gamepad support and that is somehow inferior to a console where there are zero games offering kb+mouse support zero games offering support for gamepads with more than 12 buttons, zero support for joysticks, zero support for trackballs ect, ect ect,

just for fun ive just played borderlands 2 on a steering wheel

 

[Arwin]

Actually not zero

 

[Davros]

Well I'm guessing, seeing as i dont own a console

 

[Rodéric]

PC = expensive versatile machine, cheap games, any controller.
Consoles = cheap game/multimedia machine, expensive games, whatever controller comes with the console. (With few exceptions.)

 

[Davros]

cheapest pc at newegg was $299 - you can game on it
If you want more performance spend more money, the choice is yours

 

[Shifty Geezer]

For games where KB+M are commonly considered to be the superior control method (Diablo-style games, RTS games etc.) it is more rare. I suspect, though, that the number of gamers who are interested in games in these genres that would be disappointed that they didn't support gamepad controls is dwarfed by the number of players who would be pleased that, unlike the consoles, the PC offers KB+M support for these types of games.

Sure, the number of existing PC players who'd want a controller for some games might be miniscule. But that's why they choose to game on PC. For others, where the subjective preference for controller type happens to prefer controllers, a (perceived) lack of support on PC for their controller of preference is going to discourage their migration to PC.

It'd also be nice if, when utilities or tech are available that a non-PC gamer is unaware of such as controller remapping, the response was positive information giving and not, "Yeah, well, KB+M is better, so we don't care. Oh yeah, well, it's easy because you can map anything to any controller anyway with these utilities you don't know exist." What's wrong with, "aha, it turns out there are some very useful utilities by which you can map many controls between games including thumbsticks yadayada"?

cant believe some people are complaining that some games not having gamepad support and that is somehow inferior to a console

No-one said it was inferior. Only different. It's like asking if a restaurant serves fish, and upon learning it doesn't, saying, "Oh, well I like fish so I'll maybe go with a different restaurant." To which the person giving the info responds with, "well steak is better anyway - you should eat steak."

Why is it so hard for PC gamers to appreciate different folk can have different tastes without it being a matter of superior/inferior, just different?