What’s the price of switching from console to PC?

[Shifty Geezer]

One key factor that is often overlooked is that building a PC yourself is a lot more expensive if you have to also buy the OS...

That's already been raised. You can transfer over your OS license, and most importantly MS are changing their strategy for Win 8 AFAIK, so you're looking at only 40 quid as opposed to the inordinate sums we are used to for using Windows. I think the next year or two should see a big change in PC, including whatever MS do with Live.

 

[joker454]

Those prices do look pretty good, although the CPU I assume is not 2500k, but something like i5 2400?, in any case that and the MB are somewhat older products now and you can often find good deals on outgoing products. Still the MB especially is an excellent price.

Yeah, I'm not an American but I've lived here sometime now and the prices here still knock me out sometimes. When friends or family visit from Canada they always stuff their luggage's with pc gear to bring back. There is a sweet spot to be sure, it's usually not worth paying for that last 15% of performance (aka, Nvidia 680, extreme edition cpu's, 2400mhz ram, etc), you just have to find that sweet spot. Fortunately pc building today is fairly simple, it's not even really "building" as it was back when I used to assemble them in the 80s and you had to fight a bit to get everything working, plug in all those ram modules correctly, get the irq's right, etc. Now it's just plug and play.

Buying old hardware is fine as long as it does the job, since you just want to outperform console which is trivial to do right now. Next gen will be more interesting. A 670 should compare gpu wise and by next year they will be cheap, but cpu side is still a mystery. It seems like a Sandy Bridge level i7-2500k should be up to it, but who knows right now.

It's a question I've repeated several times with not one person bothering to give a simple answer to. Can I play FIFA on the couch on PC with several mates?

From a point of view of meeting new people and socializing I don't think pc is as good as XBLive, but then again nothing really is. XBLive is literally like a party since so many people have mics, there's no shortage of new people to meet and get down with. You can play online games on pc with friends but truth be told when I gamed on the 360 I made much use of Live just because it was so cool to always encounter so many new people, whereas on the pc I tend to play more solo. It's part of that standardization thing, Microsoft made online and mics very standard on the 360 and it shows, I've never had a better online experience with regards to meeting and talking with new people than on the 360, and that includes the pc. Of course having said that no online experience will ever compare to playing Ultima Online on pc Although I don't play mmo's anymore.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

From a point of view of meeting new people and socializing...

I'm talking local social gaming with people in the same room.

 

[joker454]

I'm talking local social gaming with people in the same room.

Oh lol, I hadn't even thought of that I don't know, I've honestly never tried that on pc.

 

[almighty]

If you have an existing PC and you don't mind using second hand parts then for £200 you can get a very very potent machine for very little cash.

If moving to PC is something you've been planning on doing for a while then chances are you would understand what's involved, the hardware costs and will have a decent budget you build one from scratch.

But from going on PC hardware forums a lot of people getting gaming PC's from scratch have a minimum of £600 to spend, it's not very often you'll see a thread made by someone wanting to game on PC and only having a £100-200 budget in which to do it.

It also depends on what you want from your experience on PC, do you want to max everything or would you be content with medium to high settings?

I'm the kind of person that likes to max everything... And yet I know people that have just upgraded from an 8800 GTX and plan on making the new card last just as long.

All of these things greatly affect the overall price of a PC build.

Choice is perhaps the PC's biggest advantage over consoles.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Cons :[/B]
No social gaming

That's not entirely true. It's easy enough to have social gaming from anywhere from 2 people up to 500+ people. In GW2, for example, one guild has a WvWvW vent server with 200+ capacity (usually full) another with a Ventrilo server with 150+ capacity (also usually full).

If you game with friends then there's all sorts of options. Some free others not. Skype, Mumble, Ventrilo, Teamspeak, etc.

One key factor that is often overlooked is that building a PC yourself is a lot more expensive if you have to also buy the OS...

Not really, I just posted an example a few pages back of a system that exceeds console gaming quality levels for only 375-425 USD including OS. And if you shop around you can get it for cheaper than that. Possibly 300 USD or less.

While slightly more, it certainly isn't "a lot more expensive."

That also includes Mini-ITX such that the form factor approaches that of a console. Will easily fit in a backpack or under your arm if you want to take it to a friend's house. Will also easily fit into a home entertainment center as the case was designed for HTPC duties.

That price above could also be lowered quite a bit if you don't mind sacrificing some quality to be on par with consoles in graphics quality.

There IS a price, however. You have to build it yourself. In this day and age it's extremely simple, but some will be intimidated by having to do that. So a pre-built system will obviously be more expensive depending on the shop you go to. But it may not be "that" much more expensive if it's a large shop that can buy parts in volume.

And once you do that, you also end up with a Home multimedia center that puts both the X360 and PS3 to shame. Full unrestricted web browsing. Unrestricted media playback capabilities, etc.

For just a little bit more, you end up with a far more capable media center and gaming portal. You do lose access to system exclusives, but you do that if you buy a PS3 or X360 anyway.

It certainly isn't for everyone, but you "can" game with PC for comparable cost to consoles short term (lower cost long term) if you're willing to put some work (an hour or two) upfront to order the parts and build the system. Which obviously isn't for everyone. But again, the cost is similar for a similar or better experience.

Regards,
SB

 

[mrcorbo]

It's a question I've repeated several times with not one person bothering to give a simple answer to. Can I play FIFA on the couch on PC with several mates? Yes (I went and looked that up). Can I play Borderlands 2 on a couch with a mate? No (although there is a hack, I looked that up). Can I play the same variety of local, sociable games on PC as on consoles? Apparently not. I've looked it up but can't find a clear answer. Cooptimus seemed to think PC coop wasn't as strong as on consoles, but it was having trouble loading for me earlier. I've asked here, repeatedly, but without anyone sharing their experiences, I'm none the wiser. I look up a few titles, like Sacred 2 which is local coop on consoles, or Diablo 3 in the same style, and these aren't local coop on PC, whereas similar titles on consoles mostly are since the days of Gauntlet.

TBH, I thought your question was rhetorical. It certainly isn't prevalent. Given that only a subset of PC gamers would be playing on a couch (most will play on a desktop setup) and of those only a subset would be looking for couch co-op (as opposed to online co-op) I assume that most developers don't consider it worth the effort.

 

[mrcorbo]

I'm talking local social gaming with people in the same room.

The fact that so many have completely failed to grasp what you were talking about speaks volumes about the steady decline of this type of gaming outside of the casual space.

 

[RudeCurve]

Not really, I just posted an example a few pages back of a system that exceeds console gaming quality levels for only 375-425 USD including OS. And if you shop around you can get it for cheaper than that. Possibly 300 USD or less.

While slightly more, it certainly isn't "a lot more expensive."

That also includes Mini-ITX such that the form factor approaches that of a console. Will easily fit in a backpack or under your arm if you want to take it to a friend's house. Will also easily fit into a home entertainment center as the case was designed for HTPC duties.

That price above could also be lowered quite a bit if you don't mind sacrificing some quality to be on par with consoles in graphics quality.

There IS a price, however. You have to build it yourself. In this day and age it's extremely simple, but some will be intimidated by having to do that. So a pre-built system will obviously be more expensive depending on the shop you go to. But it may not be "that" much more expensive if it's a large shop that can buy parts in volume.

And once you do that, you also end up with a Home multimedia center that puts both the X360 and PS3 to shame. Full unrestricted web browsing. Unrestricted media playback capabilities, etc.

For just a little bit more, you end up with a far more capable media center and gaming portal. You do lose access to system exclusives, but you do that if you buy a PS3 or X360 anyway.

It certainly isn't for everyone, but you "can" game with PC for comparable cost to consoles short term (lower cost long term) if you're willing to put some work (an hour or two) upfront to order the parts and build the system. Which obviously isn't for everyone. But again, the cost is similar for a similar or better experience.

Regards,
SB

Yeah I hadn't read page 2 and 3 when I wrote that.

But yeah you could go slightly cheaper with a AMD APU instead of the separate graphics card and you could probably use a smaller case too given that you don't need PCI slot clearance for a separate graphics card.

On a related note had a friend call me yesterday over the phone and he wants me to build him a cheap capable low power PC as a gift for an acquaintance. I've already done some preliminary research and I'm gonna go with a Socket FM2 65W AMD Trinity A4-5300 3.4GHz with built-in Radeon HD 7480D. The retail APU with HSF is only $55 and 3yr warranty! Great value from AMD.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Yeah I hadn't read page 2 and 3 when I wrote that.

But yeah you could go slightly cheaper with a AMD APU instead of the separate graphics card and you could probably use a smaller case too given that you don't need PCI slot clearance for a separate graphics card.

On a related note had a friend call me yesterday over the phone and he wants me to build him a cheap capable low power PC as a gift for an acquaintance. I've already done some preliminary research and I'm gonna go with a Socket FM2 65W AMD Trinity A4-5300 3.4GHz with built-in Radeon HD 7480D. The retail APU with HSF is only $55 and 3yr warranty! Great value from AMD.

Yeah that should do well with 720p and possibly even 1080p with some setting adjustments. As long as they know they won't be playing Crysis 2 at full quality.

I've been looking at one of those as well, and while it's hugely tempting I don't have any systems in desperate need of upgrading. Although that would potentially save me a few watts in power consumption over my HTPC.

Regards,
SB

 

[almighty]

Yeah that should do well with 720p and possibly even 1080p with some setting adjustments. As long as they know they won't be playing Crysis 2 at full quality.

I've been looking at one of those as well, and while it's hugely tempting I don't have any systems in desperate need of upgrading. Although that would potentially save me a few watts in power consumption over my HTPC.

Regards,
SB

Wouldn't nether with an APU, cheap intel dual core + dedicated GPU would be a better option in terms of bang-per-buck

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Wouldnt it make more sense to look at what the extra costs of a ''gaming'' pc would be over a ''normal'' pc and compare that with a console? Most people need a pc anyway so thats at least a 500 euro investent anyway. These days you don't need much more than a mid range ~200 card to play almost everything on 1680x1050 on max if you have a half decent base system. I got a q6600, 2gb ram until a coupe of months ago and a 560ti and it plays everything just fine. I believe a q6600 performs like an i3 these days

So right now I don't think the additional costs are very different from what you'd pay for a console.

Obviously thats probably going to change when the next gen consoles come out. Will take a year or two before mid range hardware catches up in price/perf.

 

[almighty]

An example that I can think of is

- If you already have a gaming PC that perhaps 2-3 years old it would be cheaper to upgrade that to all new, modern performance parts for arguably less or the same money then one the next generation machines will be launching at.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

TBH, I thought your question was rhetorical. It certainly isn't prevalent. Given that only a subset of PC gamers would be playing on a couch (most will play on a desktop setup) and of those only a subset would be looking for couch co-op (as opposed to online co-op) I assume that most developers don't consider it worth the effort.

This is something of an issue. If PC game development sees PC games as different to consoles and local coop isn't supported, then anyone looking to social-game locally is going to be pushed into consoles regardless. The oddest part of this is that PC games that are ports of console games still don't always get the same local-game experience. That's going to be a reason for consoles to exist that bit longer.

 

[almighty]

This is something of an issue. If PC game development sees PC games as different to consoles and local coop isn't supported, then anyone looking to social-game locally is going to be pushed into consoles regardless. The oddest part of this is that PC games that are ports of console games still don't always get the same local-game experience. That's going to be a reason for consoles to exist that bit longer.

That's why people buy a Wii

I am the Wii bowling champion!!!

 

[Arwin]

That's going to be a reason for consoles to exist that bit longer.

Are you trying to write a business case for or against consoles? Because seriously, we've come a far way from the death of the PC to the death of the console.

The truth is, the last 1-2 years just prior to the launch of a new console are and have been for a few gens now, the best time for PC gaming. Of course other factors help too, but I think Valve is smart in recognising that they need to push hard now and be pro-active at keeping PC gamers on board, because there is a good chance of a big fallback in revenue when the new consoles come out.

@almighty: or a Move controller. Or even Kinect, if they have space. (Though I definitely accept that the Wii has more of this stuff) But I know that Shifty has said before I think that he and his friends aren't interested in that kind of gameplay. They want something where they can all four play a relatively traditional gaming experience together at the same time.

 

[almighty]

@almighty: or a Move controller. Or even Kinect, if they have space. (Though I definitely accept that the Wii has more of this stuff) But I know that Shifty has said before I think that he and his friends aren't interested in that kind of gameplay. They want something where they can all four play a relatively traditional gaming experience together at the same time.

Used Xbox and Halo = Godness....

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Are you trying to write a business case for or against consoles? Because seriously, we've come a far way from the death of the PC to the death of the console.

Consoles existed because they could do things PCs couldn't (custom hardware etc.). That's not the case any more, and with the consoles ending up with PC hardware, the idea of just using a PC makes a lot of sense. Why buy a 4 core x86 CPU + 7850 GPU that can only play games when buying a 4 core x86 + 7850 could get you a full-fledged computer (same sort of question as to why people might buy a Vita over a similarly spec'd phone)? The answer to that question lies in the details. Firstly the PC won't be as cheap in terms of initial cost, and it also doesn't provide the same experience. That means me and others are somewhat compelled to buy two boxes - one for work and one for games - or change our gaming interests. I would rather have the single box as that's better value by far, but this thread informs me that isn't a feasible option yet. Although in a couple of years, with the next-gen consoles out and Win 8 showing what it can bring to the table, maybe the landscape will have shifted a bit? Although I don't think PCs are going to be the target of 'console games' for a long time yet. It's only because of the consoles that we have EyeToy, Kinect, Wii and Move, and whatever else we get going forwards (I don't believe these techs have added much, but I look forwards to the day that they finally do!). The paradigm shifts in gaming are likely to come from there (the TV box, whatever that is - console, tablet with HDMI out, set-top box streaming. But I expect it to come from MS, Sony and Nintendo, and no other company putting hardware under the TV who have no interest in innovating game tech). I guess PC had its day changing the gaming landscape when it moved gaming from 2D to 3D.

 

[Gubbi]

Why buy a 4 core x86 CPU + 7850 GPU that can only play games when buying a 4 core x86 + 7850 could get you a full-fledged computer (same sort of question as to why people might buy a Vita over a similarly spec'd phone)? The answer to that question lies in the details. Firstly the PC won't be as cheap in terms of initial cost, and it also doesn't provide the same experience.

The biggest advantage consoles have is the fixed platform spec. This is what enables the big production costs of console games.

Take a look at the Steam hardware survey to see just how fragmented PC players are performance-wise. Nvidia's 670+680 and AMD's 7950+7970 is less than 5% of all GPUs in the survey. Add to that only 10% of Steam players use Intel GPUs, while Intel commands a 55% GPU marketshare in the real world.

The PC has a few niches left: RTS and MMOs and to some extend first person shooters (though arguably consoles are at par here). When Almighty claims hardcore gamers are PC players only, it because he has tunnel vision and discounts all the FIFA, Madden, NHL and Gran Turismo/Forza players, -that far outnumber the Star Craft and WoW-tards of the world.

Comparing price or value is always going to be an apples to oranges comparison. Currently you get much more hardware bang for the buck by buying PC hardware. Not so at the beginning of a console generation. for example, the 360 was by far the best platform to play Oblivion on for a full year, despite PC GPUs having the same paper FLOPs as Xenos (and yes part of this had to do with Bethesda's inability to implement a proper LOD system and cull geometry).

Cheers

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Add to that only 10% of Steam players use Intel GPUs, while Intel commands a 55% GPU marketshare in the real world.

I think the survey doesn't show Intel GPUs if a system also has a discrete GPU? I bet business computers has a huge part in this also.