What’s the price of switching from console to PC?

[Billy Idol]

What I ultimately like about PC gaming. All the social services are included and free. Steam has it all and is basically all you need. I was skeptic about PC gaming, but Steam makes it super easy and comfortable. Download, install, update, save in cloud, share with different Computers, dramatic sales, friends, gifting games, demos, mods, extra free content and chat. Even better, set up a teamspeak server, its easy and is your private chat service, perfect when gaming with friends. PC is hooked to my plasma TV, like consoles. Steam now even has a console mode (beta) for TVs with gamepad controll.

And all this for free. No monthly fee a la Xbox Live (something that my PC gaming friends still don't believe to exist!) or paying money to get early access to games/demos or sales (PSN plus). All included, all free when PC gaming.

Often, gamepads are supported, especially for multiplat titles. Except Mass Effect 3 (those effing bastards!). There are some programms around which let you freely map keys to buttons and whatever...never tried this so far.

I use a Xbox controller, no issues when supported, same as consol. Most games allow to toggle auto aim. But there are games without gamepad support. That is ultra lame. Especially PC exclusive titles. Must say that those devs are dumb. Diablo 3 and Torchlight 2 come to my mind. Would love to play those, but not without gamepad! So overall, its good, but not perfect.

Hm, so you are interested in split screen gaming? How lame and old style mister! I am so happy that online (co op) play exists...thanks god. But you have typical LAN support, if this counts.

Hm, if you really need splitscreen, you won't have much luck, except some freaking PC modder (effer) comes up with something like this:

http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=151660

 

[Davros]

Core 2 Quad Q6600, a motherboard and memory for £80-100. Add a dedicated GPU and you have a cheap and very powerful upgrade that will out run any console.

Thats similar to what I have and i'm very happy + If i need a bit more cpu power i can but a good cooler and overclock from 2.4ghz to 3.3ghz (ive heard of some people getting 3.6ghz on air)

 

[almighty]

Thats similar to what I have and i'm very happy + If i need a bit more cpu power i can but a good cooler and overclock from 2.4ghz to 3.3ghz (ive heard of some people getting 3.6ghz on air)

3.6Ghz is doable on every Q6600, if yours is a G0 stepping then 4Ghz is doable with the right cooling power

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm done with this thread.... Not being able to use used parts because it complicates the comparison is rubbish and is only not allowed because it then makes PC way more worth while from a financial point of view.

You can't replace all the 200+ million console gamers with PCs by relying on the used parts market. As a viable alternative for console gaming, the death of the console and its replacement with PCs, we need to consider the typical behaviour of the typical consumer, and not fringe cases. That's just common sense. We can't place the cost of console gaming at £25 if you are lucky and get one cheap at an auction, or at £900 because you may be unlucky and have to buy three replacements as they keep breaking. Console games could cost £50 a pop if bought on PSN, or £0 if you just borrow your mate's copies when he's done. The discussion is too broad to cover every contingent, and so we limit ourselves to a set of standard operating variables that are typical for a significant degree of people.

...should of known though as its in the console section.

It's on both sections. I created it in the PC forum and moved it here with a permanent redirect. Doesn't matter which forum it's in as it needs the input from both parties to evaluate what it is the console offers and how PC can provide that experience.

You can take an old PC and for £200 at the absolute max you can chuck in there a used Quad-core CPU, motherboard, 4Gb+ memory, a dedicated GPU and a new power supply.

With specialist knowledge and time. That's true of any business - you can buy antiques dirt cheap as long as you know what you're looking for and visit all the markets, but the typical consumer just wants to buy them so goes to a dealer and pays way more. Or the cost of car maintenance can be really cheap instead of going to a mechanic, as long as you do it yourself.

I point you to my previous post ender - what would your advice be to these ordinary people and every other would-be console gamer current eyeing a PS360 for Christmas? "Oh, go on eBay, find yourself a cheap 2nd hand AMD APU package and replace the insides of your case. You can keep the HDD and PSU." That's going to be a god answer for some of them, but a terrible answer for most who won't be at all comfortably changing their PC innards.

 

[almighty]

You seem to forget that people who game on or are looking to start gaming on PC do it for the increased IQ and eye candy.

You also seem to forget that people who do game or are considering gaming on PC generally do know that

1. The hardware could cost more
2. They'll have to build it themselves
3. There would be some research and asking around on forums for help involved

The average Joe gamer doesn't wake up one morning and all of a sudden decide they want to start gaming on PC.

People that are genuinely considering the move from console to PC know what's involved and what it's costs and what's involved, but they also know that at the end of it they'll get a better experience out of it.

So using Joe gamer as an argument is complete and utter bullshit as Joe gamer doesn't have the slightest bit of interest in PC gaming and never will.

This thread should target the people that as I said above are genuinely interested about making the jump, everyone on this forums knows that there's chances of higher hardware costs and other factors involved but to someone with a reasonable amount of intelligence these are none issues.

Building a PC is so easy it's not even funny and the best thing people actually ENJOY the first time they ever tackle the job.

So what's the price from console to PC for the average Joe gamer? Nothing because average Joe gamer couldn't give a monkeys about gaming on PC.

What's for price for someone who's considering moving from console to PC? How long is a piece of string? These kind of people KNOW that it costs more so these people WILL have a good amount of money to spend on a decent PC.

You Shifty have no interest in gaming on PC what so ever, which is why it's easy for you to dismiss prices and other various factors but for a genuine person buying used parts and upgrading a current PC to a rig that game run pretty much anything is a god send.

If people have hundreds or a couple of thousand to spend then they will be able to play games with out compromise and the way the developers intended there games to be played.

The average, cheap skate Joe gamer is best off sticking with console.

 

[mrcorbo]

No, because none of the non-fiscal costs have been discussed at all...

It's pretty hard to have a productive discussion around this since the non-fiscal costs can't be objectively quantified. You list "lost portability" as a cost for you. For others, this is a non-factor as they wouldn't move their console around anyway. Some hate split-screen gaming. To what degree are the costs offset by the advantages the PC offers? Like:

• Instant access to your entire games library without ever having to handle a disk.
• Faster load times (exponentially so with an SSD).
• Consistently better resolution, AA/AF and framerate.
• The fact that BC is inherent to the platform and that even games that get broken as the platform matures are often able to be made to work via software emulation.
• Also through software emulation, you are able to play games from older platforms you may have owned. Ironically, the PC has better compatibility with PS2 games than all but the initial revision of the PS3.
• No hard generational shifts mean that you can (within reason) continue to play the newest games on old hardware (albeit with reduced settings) and conversely if you upgrade your hardware your existing games library will look and play better.
• The PC mod scene offers free content/functionality upgrades to games that the console versions will never see. These mods are also becoming more accessible thanks to Steam.

And all of those are just focusing on the gaming aspect.

I personally don't know if I would ever tell someone who was considering purchasing a console for gaming to purchase a PC instead. However, I always advise anyone who is into gaming that is looking to buy a PC to invest in a system capable of playing games.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You seem to forget that people who game on or are looking to start gaming on PC do it for the increased IQ and eye candy.

No, I'm talking explicitly about PCs replacing consoles (console becoming obsolete), and not console gamers wanting to switch to a "PC experience" in order to have higher IQ and framerates.

So using Joe gamer as an argument is complete and utter bullshit as Joe gamer doesn't have the slightest bit of interest in PC gaming and never will.

Why? This is the crux of this discussion. What is it about PC's that means Joe Gamer won't buy them? AFAICS it's because they cost more (up front, certainly, in money or effort) and don't provide the same experience. I have very little knowledge of PC gaming and so have asked those that do to see if I'm right in those assumptions or not.

This thread should target the people that as I said above are genuinely interested about making the jump, everyone on this forums knows that there's chances of higher hardware costs and other factors involved but to someone with a reasonable amount of intelligence these are none issues.

That's a different thread. "How to build a gaming PC cheap," or somesuch. If I wanted to discuss that, I'd have created that thread, wouldn't I?

You Shifty have no interest in gaming on PC what so ever...

That's bollocks and highlights your prejudice in this discussion. In my lengthy OP I go into detail how I've gamed on console and computer over the years. I've explained my desire for a gaming platform, and if PC could give that for me at a decent price, I'd switch. I use myself as an example of a 'gamer', neither console nor PC gamer but someone who just enjoys playing computer games, as a good test-case of evaluating what I would have to change/pay to switch my gaming platform. If next-gen, I can get a decent enough PC at a decent enough price to cover non-gaming functions and desired gaming functions, I'll do it because it's good value.

The average, cheap skate Joe gamer is best off sticking with console.

It's this sort of PC elitism that really makes such discussions as this so tiresome. Gaming isn't worth £thousands to me. It's a casual hobby, worth a few hundred quid up front and the odd game here and there, just as it is with a lot of gamers. My interests are much more in favour of sitting on a couch round someone's house playing together rather than playing online at a desk. You need to accept that other people have other tastes to you if you're going to try and converse with them about their hobby.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's pretty hard to have a productive discussion around this since the non-fiscal costs can't be objectively quantified. You list "lost portability" as a cost for you. For others, this is a non-factor as they wouldn't move their console around anyway...

The variety of PC means pretty much everything is possible as long as you don't mind cost. Console gaming is popular because it comes with a smallish hardware budget. So knowing that the PC can be made small and portable, and fast, I'm now asking what else it can or can't do? I'm not asking whether people here do or don't like social gaming on PC; I'm asking is it even possible/prevalent? If not, then anyone who wants that feature will either have to not switch or accept they won't get it.

Perhaps the format of the question is confusing people, and if I'd asked for people to fill in a comparison chart for consoles and PCs I'd get a better answer, but typically those sorts of responses don't factor in the price. Simple example.

Console
Pros :
Cheap hardware
Social gaming
Small form factor

Cons :
Hardware ages
Expensive games
Limited functions

PC
Pros :
Fairly cheap hardware (can buy second hand)
Small form factor
Cheap games
Hardware improves over time
Better quality experience

Cons :
No social gaming

The problem with such a comparison, which is accurate, is it doesn't explain the price to go small form factor, or the ongoing cost to improve the graphics, and how much the cheap games really matter. We could create a dozen different comparisons, all valid, which doesn't explain really what the differences are to the typical person looking to buy something to play games on. A proper look at the pros and cons for the systems needs a proper, intelligent, well-informed discussion, which isn't really happening.

 

[almighty]

Gaming isn't worth £thousands to me. It's a casual hobby, worth a few hundred quid up front and the odd game here and there.

As I said, average Joe gamer, stick to consoles.

You can't put a price on PC gaming, that's what I keep trying to tell you, every one has different needs, everyone has different budgets.

People decide on what they want, research the benefits and the costs involved and then ultimately make the decision on if PC gaming is for them.

And as for elitism? PC gamers are the hard cores gamers, you have to be a true gamer to spend thousands on hardware just to play games at the highest of high.

Anyone who is truly a serious gamers wants to play games at the highest quality and get the best and ultimate experience they can, and the only way to get that experience is on PC.

Any casual gamer can go out and buy a console.

And your comment on no social gaming on PC? Is that a joke?

 

[owen]

Oh and another point I forgot to add that people never mention when it comes to PC gaming. Viruses, windows/mac operating systems that always need to be updated or become more vunerable over time unless you do PC gaming TOTALLY OFFLINE! But then again every PC gamer is jumping on steam bandwagon which forces you to be online and up-to-date (even if its just ever so often). SO you get your games cheap, so cheap that you don't finish half of them.

So at the end of the day Console gaming will always be cheaper unless you are a major pc pirate OR don't think paying full price for you games is a good thing.

To bring it alittle further, with the stuff that the XBOX 360 dashboard is doing it is getting closer and closer to being a PC with it needing all these DAM UPDATES!!! Lets not talk about the ps3. At least the game discs still work and I can resell them in the future if I get tired of playing them. Steam? no so much. Chances are everything you buy on there is on a long term lease. I could sell my steam account but I don't know anybody who would buy virtual goods, unless they have no other choice.

I'm not sure how the future consoles will pan out. The next xbox may force you to be a GOLD member just to play it. Playstation Plus already says that you need to keep you membership active to play the FREE games that they give you. With all the unecessary DRM creeping in its just a matter of time before consoles just become smaller PCs. Nintendo has jumped on the virtual bandwagon with something disc games as downloadable on the 3ds, no third party stuff so far though.

I say if you want to go PC, just go PC and shut up. Or better yet buy both and have the best of both worlds.

 

[ERP]

And as for elitism? PC gamers are the hard cores gamers, you have to be a true gamer to spend thousands on hardware just to play games at the highest of high.

Not true at all.
All that's required is to have the disposable income available.

I have at least 2 PC's that would be considered high end, and probably enough bits lying around to make another.

I am certainly not a hardcore gamer.
I might play games on my PC perhaps 10 hours a week if I'm playing something at the time, probably about the same on console if the game I happen to be playing is something I consider a better experience there.

If your going to build a PC I think you do it to play the games that were intended to be played there. I don't see the value in doing it for a console like experience.

 

[joker454]

I know you are exaggerating with that price comparison, but you still have inaccurate understanding of the situation. Things are more expensive here, but not that much. You can't compare parts you bought from Newegg to a pre-built machine Arwin picked up from some store. If you order your components from say an online store in Germany, you'll get pretty good prices, that way the amount of premium we actually have to pay reduces to about 10-15% over US.

I actually didn't compare to online pricing. This is what my post was from page 1:

Just came back from Frys, this was all on their store shelves:

Intel Core i5 quad core cpu, $189
Asus P8P67 Evo board, $79
Patriot 8GB DDR3 ram, $34
Nvidia 670, $359

I had walked into my local Frys store the other day and picked off the shelf normal typical everyday pricing and posted it here, my prices are not from Newegg which would actually be even cheaper, they were from a normal brick and mortal local store. Incidently the reason I had walked into my frys was because I needed a new Sandy Bridge core i7 motherboard, and I walked out of the store with an Asus P8P67 Evo for $49 that they had an open box version of, they sell open box items even cheaper.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You can't put a price on PC gaming...

But I can put a price on gaming, and see if PC gaming can be achieved in that budget, and I can ask what the price of PC gaming is and see if my budget (or Joe Gamer's) will stretch to that.

And your comment on no social gaming on PC? Is that a joke?

It's a question I've repeated several times with not one person bothering to give a simple answer to. Can I play FIFA on the couch on PC with several mates? Yes (I went and looked that up). Can I play Borderlands 2 on a couch with a mate? No (although there is a hack, I looked that up). Can I play the same variety of local, sociable games on PC as on consoles? Apparently not. I've looked it up but can't find a clear answer. Cooptimus seemed to think PC coop wasn't as strong as on consoles, but it was having trouble loading for me earlier. I've asked here, repeatedly, but without anyone sharing their experiences, I'm none the wiser. I look up a few titles, like Sacred 2 which is local coop on consoles, or Diablo 3 in the same style, and these aren't local coop on PC, whereas similar titles on consoles mostly are since the days of Gauntlet.

 

[almighty]

But I can put a price on gaming, and see if PC gaming can be achieved in that budget, and I can ask what the price of PC gaming is and see if my budget (or Joe Gamer's) will stretch to that

I've already said what can be done on a set budget now, multiple times in fact.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I've already said what can be done on a set budget now, multiple times in fact.

Yes. That was very useful info.

 

[RudeCurve]

One key factor that is often overlooked is that building a PC yourself is a lot more expensive if you have to also buy the OS...

 

[liolio]

Not true at all.
All that's required is to have the disposable income available.

I have at least 2 PC's that would be considered high end, and probably enough bits lying around to make another.

I am certainly not a hardcore gamer.
I might play games on my PC perhaps 10 hours a week if I'm playing something at the time, probably about the same on console if the game I happen to be playing is something I consider a better experience there.

If your going to build a PC I think you do it to play the games that were intended to be played there. I don't see the value in doing it for a console like experience.

I disagree plenty of people play on far from high configurations. It's not about console experience it's about budget. And adding a cheap GPU to a PC one might need anyway ain't that costly.

To put a cheap PC together now, akin to this, would not be a great choice. Mostly because the next generation of console should launch next year and 22nm part should be available in 2014.
If you are a PC gamer on a budget timing is important. A PC akin to the one used in that paper might have been doable for quiet a while. I would say as soon as 40 nm parts becomes readily available. One may have lose some perfs but a marginal difference (say early 2010).

The things is there are no "new next generation PC", there are multiple upgrade patterns within the same budget. I would say that the entry cost for a PC is close to be the launch price of a console at launch (let say 360 kind of price). Then there are many patterns depending on how the conf were put together.

But as Almighty pointed out there are many advantages, games are cheaper, network is free, what it does is not in the same league as what a console does. Way more utilities, etc.

It is tough to make a straight forward comparison, I would not say that Pc is more that more expansive than console. Things is for many consoles costumers PC is not an option. The conf sold by Dell HP and the like more than often sucks... Parents thinks they have to buy a anti virus whereas free ones are good enough for me (I mostly resort to MSFT own software), they might be scared of "internet" depending on the age of the kid, they are unware of thing like Steam, in US you mostly can't find much PC games in retails shops. Etc there are plenty of reason that are not economic that prevent mass adoption of PC gaming. Ultimately lots of family buy a 500$ PC which is way over powered for theirs needs while it can't play games and they buy a console too, (heve more than often laptops too).
If the one are Dell, HP, Acert, Asus wanted they could ship neat gaming PC device in neat form factors, public perception makes it unattractive... the market is not alway right let say... As well as subsidizing bent the market and it is not making the best decision...

Anyway, if it's about buying a PC to play along next gen, say in late 2014, I,m sure that there will be competitive set-up. I might very well pass, as with Steam and windows 8 apps stores and all the legacy software... Let say it's going to be a tough sell to sell me a 400$ device with tiny HDD...

 

[Arwin]

I have that same quad-core Q6600 with 4GB of RAM in my old 2009 PC, which is now my wife's. I do accept that with a modern GPU, it should do quite well - unfortunately I had a small form factor one, quiet, but I never managed to get a good GPU for it (apparently there's one now though). Such older quad-cores aren't that easy to find though. With other models, you have to be careful of stupid things like the version of GPU slot. I discovered that in my wife's dual core, no ATi cards work at all, and if I'd managed to try an NVidia in it, it's bus would have been a 1/4th of the speed of the most recent type.

If you go into the second hand area, yes, you may be able to do it, but it's not a cakewalk (including the hassle with Windows licences etc.) and a second hand console is even less expensive.

Also, if you're really going to go into the whole value debate, then PC parts devaluate considerably faster than consoles, which you'd have to consider as a write-off as well.

Again, I'm saying that as someone who is actively gaming on both. They compliment each other greatly though, and you can definitely have a lot of fun with both. Right now, a PS3 and a Playstation Plus subscription gives you a heck of a lot of game for the buck, but if all you're interested in is, say, playing MMOs, Diablo, Torchlight, etc. then PC is just about your only choice.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I actually didn't compare to online pricing. This is what my post was from page

Ok I thought you were talking about your i7 system, which for some reason I thought you had gotten from Newegg...

I had walked into my local Frys store the other day and picked off the shelf normal typical everyday pricing and posted it here.

Those prices do look pretty good, although the CPU I assume is not 2500k, but something like i5 2400?, in any case that and the MB are somewhat older products now and you can often find good deals on outgoing products. Still the MB especially is an excellent price.

 

[Arwin]

I just remembered a fun thing that's the complete other end of the spectrum, and may be very good for local gaming. A few guys I've met in the Gran Turismo scene back in the PS2 days, had a small room or shed in which they built a few console setups next to each other. This is something that's almost even easier to do than it has been in the past: buy four cheap but decent LCDs (99 euro will do quite nicely these days) and four PS3s (new or second hand), hook them up to the internet and some cheap speakers with audio out (or LCDs that have audio integrated). Some had a big couch, others had seats or mixed (some wanted to drive with a wheel they brought themselves)

Sure, this can cost you up to 1000 euro, but you can have a tonne of fun with this setup with your friends. Some added a small bar, and they all basically set up a little pot that people could contribute to voluntarily to pay for the stuff, and improvements (for instance, for Gran Turismo a fifth PS2 and screen in spectator mode for people watching was a popular addition, but also a bar ).

Definitely one of the most fun 'social' gaming I've experienced. It could be a hassle for some games (a few of them locked to an account, a PS3 or both, and downloadable games are harder now they can only be shared by two instead of five accounts I think) but in some cases friends could bring their own consoles and solve it that way. It may seem a lot of money initially, but compared to the PC I spent money on (849, monitor excluded) it's actually an amazing multiplayer setup. And a lot of fun to be had. I'd definitely consider doing something like this myself if I had enough friends that played games (having a kid put a big dent into my social gaming habits, only went once or twice to a gaming gettogether, one of them to something like this, at an old GT friend's place in Germany, who had a 'bring your own' setup permanently ready to have up to 12 PS3s, and an amazing lots of other stuff to boot, huge old electronic racing track, a guitar hero/rockband setup, half an old console museum, very cool)