Was the "ATI got Xbox2 contract" rumor true?

[megadrive0088]

Micron demoed a rendition with 12megs of eDRAM, the thing would be GF1-GF2 level during the TNT-TNT2 days. Pretty damn kewl if you ask me. Especially, considering their architecture was pretty damn flexible, well fed it would really kick some serious butt.

that's the one. it was the V4400 and/or V4400e (ahh Google is so great)

(V for Verite, e for embedded memory, i guess)

that is the one that had well over 100 million transistors. I think this was during the 1999, iirc.


edit: 127 million transistors! http://download.micron.com/pdf/pubs/designline/dl3-401.pdf

what a freaking monster that would have been, if released in 1999 or even 2000.

Heh, this is fun. the more I think about it, the more I want Micron w/ former Rendition team to have a shot at getting the XBox2 contract.

it would likely be the only eDRAM based solution, assuming ATI/Nvidia does not go to eDRAM with R5XX / NV5X. plus it would take away Sony's and Nintendo's advantage of having eDRAM (currently in GS & Flipper, and future Visualizer/GS3 & Flipper2) which MS does not have with the current NV2X-based XBox which has no eDRAM other than the tiny amount of cache that all graphics chips have.

 

[Brimstone]

Found this statement on Microns site.

As an increasing number of consumer products integrate semiconductor solutions, they become more affordable and provide added reliability and functionality. From MP3 players and PDAs to digital cameras and game consoles, consumer products present a wide range of applications for Micron products.

Consumer devices require a diverse set of low-cost semiconductors. Graphics and entertainment systems need ultra high-bandwidth memory to rapidly process images.

http://www.micron.com/02_review/markets/consumer.htm


The "game consoles" mention isn't that big of deal since they're already involved with the current X-Box, but I guess still worth pointing out. The "ultra high-bandwidth" is more intresting.

 

[keegdsb]

I was kidding guys, I'm pretty sure most of the former Rendition team migrated over to nVidia.

Hmm, V4400 was supposed to have actually made it in some chipset that Micron made a while ago, I wonder what happened,

 

[nonamer]

The way I see, it's one huge bluff/scare-fest.

NVidia is trying to make MS think the PS3 is unbeatable without them in order to get MS to give them a big contract, while MS is trying to make nVidia think that they're going with ATI in order to get a cheaper contract. In end, I feel it'll be MS + nVidia with little doubt since there's quite a bit of proprietary stuff in the Xbox1, which they'll need nVidia if MS wants XB2 to be backward compatable, and that ATI is tied down to Nintendo, leaving nVidia as the only real solution anyways.

 

[nondescript]

The way I see, it's one huge bluff/scare-fest.

NVidia is trying to make MS think the PS3 is unbeatable without them in order to get MS to give them a big contract, while MS is trying to make nVidia think that they're going with ATI in order to get a cheaper contract. In end, I feel it'll be MS + nVidia with little doubt since there's quite a bit of proprietary stuff in the Xbox1, which they'll need nVidia if MS wants XB2 to be backward compatable, and that ATI is tied down to Nintendo, leaving nVidia as the only real solution anyways.

D*mn! Now that I think about it, this has got to be it. No other scenario seems really plausible.

nonamer +1

 

[Josiah]

A 5900 already has 130 million transistors, if they added a significant amount of on-chip RAM they would have to cut out some features to make room (think about a 5200 with 8mb of on-chip RAM).

 

[megadrive0088]

The way I see, it's one huge bluff/scare-fest.

NVidia is trying to make MS think the PS3 is unbeatable without them in order to get MS to give them a big contract, while MS is trying to make nVidia think that they're going with ATI in order to get a cheaper contract. In end, I feel it'll be MS + nVidia with little doubt since there's quite a bit of proprietary stuff in the Xbox1, which they'll need nVidia if MS wants XB2 to be backward compatable, and that ATI is tied down to Nintendo, leaving nVidia as the only real solution anyways.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here.

Nvidia is still the most likely in the end, even though it seems ATI is the frontrunner now. I still perfer ATI at the moment. more geometry performance for the buck.

 

[nonamer]

D*mn! Now that I think about it, this has got to be it. No other scenario seems really plausible.

nonamer +1

I think you've hit the nail on the head here.

Nvidia is still the most likely in the end, even though it seems ATI is the frontrunner now. I still perfer ATI at the moment. more geometry performance for the buck.

8)

 

[Gunhead]

Although if Pyramid3D had come out, from TriTech, and had been sucessful with one or two chips, I would have listed them. I was so much looking forward to Pyramid3D, the one with the geometry processor...they could've had the first GPU long before Nvidia.

Okay, the "and had been successful" kinda kills this, but P3D was put into silicon, so there indeed was the first "GPU" long before Nvidia. (Well yes of course Verités too, and what with the bunch of pro cards way earlier that happily accelerated T&L, but anyway.) Surely you knew back then when you were eagerly expecting P3D that chips were being fabbed and boards assembled?

But what I'm really surprised about is that nobody is considering Matrox! Oh wait, I'm not.

 

[keegdsb]

But what I'm really surprised about is that nobody is considering Matrox! Oh wait, I'm not.

They probably made the perfect solution for XBox2, but knowing them they pulled the project at 90% completion then fired the team that made it. *whoops*

 

[megadrive0088]

Okay, the "and had been successful" kinda kills this, but P3D was put into silicon, so there indeed was the first "GPU" long before Nvidia. (Well yes of course Verités too, and what with the bunch of pro cards way earlier that happily accelerated T&L, but anyway.) Surely you knew back then when you were eagerly expecting P3D that chips were being fabbed and boards assembled?

All valid points actually. yeah P3D did become silicon. although I wasn't aware of everything going on with 3D chips back in 1996-1997 because I didn't have constant internet access. most of the info I got was through magazines, unfortunately. And I didn't follow P3D all that closely. but I was awaiting it. And yes of course, there were "GPUs" long before GeForce256 in 1999, (or at least cards with geometry processors) in the professional, workstation, arcade, etc. spaces. there was Real3D, P3D and yes Verite for consumers!

 

[Gunhead]

Yea! And not forgetting Number Nine!

And hey Megadrive, sorry if I sounded grumpy. Was having a bad day there I think...

There's an angle to the current topic -- how relevant is the tech and the hype about it, really? I mean, does MS really have to give a scheiBe about what Joe Sixpack reads on XB2 or PS3 tech, as long as developers come along nicely? (I mean, it's games and games only that sell the console, not the bare tech under the hood.) In yet other words, why would M$ be any scared od PS3? -- As long as XB2 isn't outright crappy, Microsoft will get the developers. The rest is just marketing. (Well, there's an offhand way to refer to a multi-billion-dollar aspect of the thing, I admit.)

 

[Almasy]

Well, I believe the power of a device such as videogames influences in a big way the costumers. I mean, the PS2 library is so big right now and popularity is so big that those two become the dominant factors (at least I think so).

But what happens when both consoles are just taking off? Technology, image, and mind share are huge factors in this kind of situations.

 

[Brimstone]

On the NEC/Nintendo side of things, it looks like NEC will have the same 65nm process capability as Sony. Take a look at the roadmap at the bottom of this linked page.

http://www.necelam.com/ASIC/edram.cfm

The UX7D edram process is projected to ready in 2005.

 

[Vince]

On the NEC/Nintendo side of things, it looks like NEC will have the same 65nm process capability as Sony...

The UX7D edram process is projected to ready in 2005.

Toshiba/Sony is slated to start it's production of the 65nm line in 2004.

 

[KnightBreed]

On the NEC/Nintendo side of things, it looks like NEC will have the same 65nm process capability as Sony...

The UX7D edram process is projected to ready in 2005.

Toshiba/Sony is slated to start it's production of the 65nm line in 2004.

Out of curiousity, does either Toshiba or Sony have volume production of any 90nm products now? I didn't think they had. I could see them possibly sampling 65nm asic's by the end of 2004, but actual mass production?

We're halfway through 2003 and only a select number of companies have even started sampling 90nm lines, let alone volume production, and an even smaller number are production ready. Perhaps I'm being over pessimistic, but I have a hard time seeing Toshiba and Sony leapfrogging 90nm with a ready 65nm line by next year.

 

[Vince]

Out of curiousity, does either Toshiba or Sony have volume production of any 90nm products now? I didn't think they had. I could see them possibly sampling 65nm asic's by the end of 2004, but actual mass production?

SCEI also announced it has integrated the two key PlayStation 2 devices into one chip with 53.5 million transistors using a 90- nm process. Mass production using the 90-nm process will begin this spring, the unit said...

"With the practical product [EE+GS@90nm], we can launch mass production using 90-nm process smoothly," said Yoshihide Fujii, executive vice president of Toshiba Semiconductor Co.

 

[PC-Engine]

So if a person were to buy a PS2 right now, would it have the single chip EE/GS?

 

[jvd]

So if a person were to buy a PS2 right now, would it have the single chip EE/GS?

most likely not. You have to figure there is still all the old stock to get through .

 

[London Geezer]

does this mean that the newer ps2's are gonna be QUIETER fan-wise? thats one of the only things that really bug me....