Viability of pc simulation and RTS games on PS4 and next xbox .

[arijoytunir]

Recently Playstation 4 was unveiled and its built on a PC architecture . Also the next XBOX is rumored to have the similar hardware as ps4 and pc .

So can we see titles like Simcity , Total War series on ps4 and the next xbox ?
There is a touchpad on dualshock 4 that can be used as an input method for this genre
or the integration with tablets and phone with the playstation app and xbox smartglass.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Touchpad is awful for rts.

 

[Xbat]

It would be better to use the move control as a pointer.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It may not be bad for a sloooooooooow RTS. So Total War might be doable, but not something like StarCraft. Sim City should work even with the standard controller and probably better than the touchpad.

Regards,
SB

 

[fehu]

for simple turn based strategy the controller is enough, but for anything else I still have to see a good solution for rts.
Ps3 was able to use key&mouse, but isn't a widespread method, and theres' the move but isn't precise enough and would be worst than a fitness sessions.
Xbox + next has kinect. Everyone smiles.

 

[-tkf-]

If sony creates an official semi cheap key+mouse package it might get traction, and of course if they support the usual USB, wireless solutions it also would be easy. But it requires a couch with a table in front

 

[Xbat]

for simple turn based strategy the controller is enough, but for anything else I still have to see a good solution for rts.
Ps3 was able to use key&mouse, but isn't a widespread method, and theres' the move but isn't precise enough and would be worst than a fitness sessions.
Xbox + next has kinect. Everyone smiles.

I found move pretty accurate when playing killzone and no more tiring than using a mouse.

 

[Arwin]

for simple turn based strategy the controller is enough, but for anything else I still have to see a good solution for rts.
Ps3 was able to use key&mouse, but isn't a widespread method, and theres' the move but isn't precise enough and would be worst than a fitness sessions.
Xbox + next has kinect. Everyone smiles.

Actually, the Move is absolutely precise enough, and it requires minimal wrist movement, pretty similar to resting a mouse in your hand upside down. On PS3, there are a few RTS-ish games that use it and it works well - the bottleneck here has so far been performance more than anything else.

I have not yet seen the new controller's 'Move functionality' in action yet, but it could be a nice fit, also because it tracks movement in all directions, and can be added to what the analog sticks already do. But the Move controller may still be better.

 

[fehu]

I base my opinion on big pc rts, because you can shovel one even on a controller (like the halo one), but if you want a real game you have a complex interface with tons of tiny near buttons, and your cursor must move like a pinball from side to side without stopping, and with a lot of precision.
With a move you must keep the wrist lifted to be free, keep it steady and micro-move in all the precision actions like selecting a group of units avoiding some ecc
Killzone has not all this kind of movement needs, and is permissive when aiming

For example I have some difficulty at imaging a Starcraft move that keeps the same ritm, or an adapted version that can steel be called Starcraft

 

[Arwin]

No, you can rest it on your lap. And it really is precise enough to do micro movements, and that is very comfortable to do.

Of course there will still be slight nuance differences between a mouse and a Move, but they are uncannily similar. And Move can do much more than a mouse - a mouse is just x-y (though scroll-wheel adds another axis), where the move is x-y-z plus x-y-z rotation. Ubisoft's RTS (Ruse) made some use of these features quite well, but in that game the biggest bottleneck was weak performance on PS3.

Also, Move will be more precise still with the two higher resolution cameras. There are quite a few games where the Move controller is used as a pointer that show it is really quite effective.

Biggest question I have right now is whether Sony will include Move with all PS4s. MMs project makes that seem hopeful, but I'm slightly worried regardless.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's always doable, but I don't see why it would happen. Those PC games are designed for up-close desktop gaming with KB+M. The genre has evolved around that input scheme from the earliest games like Dune II. Taking that to a couch is unlikely to work as the control scheme is unwieldy. As that's what's being asked of the consoles, I can't see it happening. We've had a couple of decent attempts on PS3 (Ruse, Under Siege) and neither sold great guns AFAIK, so it's not like there's a compelling market for frantic RTS on consoles.

 

[jlippo]

If sony creates an official semi cheap key+mouse package it might get traction, and of course if they support the usual USB, wireless solutions it also would be easy. But it requires a couch with a table in front

Even ps1 had mouse accessory and ps3 works with standard USB KB+M, so I'm sure that the trend will continue with ps4.

If developers will actually support kb+m is another thing entirely..

 

[patsu]

Yeah I have always thought that someone should release a mouse-like remote for home theaters and consoles. It should work like Logitech's Air Mouse, tracking pointer in 3D space and on a flat/table surface seamlessly.

Move is precise in the sense that it is very sensitive. In some games, it will reflect my shaky hand input on TV without smoothing. That's why I usually rest my hand on my laps or an arm rest when using Move. I have always wondered if they could add a table mode for Move: Let us use it like a mouse by drawing and tapping on the coffee table.

 

[gpechorin]

I think it's a risk problem. Few people expect to buy an RTS for the PS/XBox, so (statistics say) people who buy RTS games don't buy a PS/XBox. I'd expect a me-too release of something like SimCity (or StarCraft,* or whatever silliness stays popular) if the game becomes a hit and has any shelf-life left. I'd think TotalWar is too "serious" for the money-people to back on the console

*StarCraft on XBox seems like a stretch to me if MicroSoft says "Our data centers only"

 

[Sigfried1977]

No, you can rest it on your lap. And it really is precise enough to do micro movements, and that is very comfortable to do.

Of course there will still be slight nuance differences between a mouse and a Move, but they are uncannily similar. And Move can do much more than a mouse - a mouse is just x-y (though scroll-wheel adds another axis), where the move is x-y-z plus x-y-z rotation. Ubisoft's RTS (Ruse) made some use of these features quite well, but in that game the biggest bottleneck was weak performance on PS3.

Also, Move will be more precise still with the two higher resolution cameras. There are quite a few games where the Move controller is used as a pointer that show it is really quite effective.

Biggest question I have right now is whether Sony will include Move with all PS4s. MMs project makes that seem hopeful, but I'm slightly worried regardless.

The problem with playing a game like SC2 effectively on a console isn't the lack of a precise and comfortable pointer device. It's the lack of a keyboard. SC2 is all about the short cuts.

 

[jonabbey]

Meh. Red Alert 3 is playable on the PS3, but games like Valkyria Chronicles, Civilization Revolutions, or X-COM work much better.

 

[patsu]

Aye, Valkyria is indeed an interesting mix of strategy and real-time action RPG. Hope to see more cross genra examples nextgen.

 

[ramr]

Since most gamers today misclassify click-fests as RTS, by that definition RTS will be hard to put on a console.

However, actual strategy games with a real-time engine would work great with Kinect (voice and gesture) or Kinect + controller. Xcom has amply demonstrated the controller-based strategy games can work as even on PC the controller is much better than the mouse. Add in voice and most of constraints go away.

 

[Acert93]

Kinect 2.0 with open/closed hand would work well for an RTS designed for it.

We already saw a MS video where you could draw in space and use your hand to zoom in/out.

It could be as simple as:

* Open hand: pan around map
* Two hands: zoom in
* Close hand and point: circle around desired units
* Voice command: Attack, Defend, etc
* Point at desired target

With fully integrated voice you could actually use it as a short cut to get around the map, select "hero" units, pull up special menus, etc. It wouldn't be hard to say "MENU" and a menu appear at the corners of the screen and you slash or push whatever option you want.

 

[patsu]

We need to be able to rest our arms while playing the game. The problem with Move and Kinect gesture games is the lack of arm support.