Viability of pc simulation and RTS games on PS4 and next xbox .

[ramr]

We need to be able to rest our arms while playing the game. The problem with Move and Kinect gesture games is the lack of arm support.

I could see a RTS primarily controlled by voice. Really only need hands for unit grouping and target selection. Have everything else controlled by voice. Game would be not be a click-fest but could have great flow.

 

[patsu]

It sounds like a different game from traditional RTS altogether. For a real-time strategy game, precise timing and spatial manipulation of troops is key. Even for a casual RTS like Crash of Clans on iOS, you need to place the troops at specific spot before they become "auto-pilot" (potentially suitable for voice control).

IMHO, a voice controlled strategy game may be more similar to Chess (or Avalon Hill war-games) than WarCraft. If the action becomes too intense/frequent, voice control may be tiring also, or even falls apart (too slow).

Probably controller (mouse, tablet or dual sticks), assisted by voice for secondary input ? May be a social RTS ?

 

[tunafish]

I could see a RTS primarily controlled by voice. Really only need hands for unit grouping and target selection. Have everything else controlled by voice. Game would be not be a click-fest but could have great flow.

A very interesting proof of concept of this is Natural Selection 2. It's a fps/rts hybrid, where one player is in a command position and orders the rest of the team (4-12, typically) around the map, building structures, capturing resources and the like. The rest of the team plays from a fps perspective.

The game doesn't technically have any voice controls, but it has voice chat, and while you can select a marine and give him a waypoint to go to, almost no-one ever does that, instead opting for talking to the team to give them orders. Mouse is used to drop structures on map, drop ammo/health to boost your teammates, and navigating. For an example of what it looks like, this is the best team out there at the moment playing something very close to a perfect game, from the commander point of view with the team voice comms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8y9vW6QCwI

 

[Jedi2016]

Simulation's only ever been a problem with demographic, not power or controls. Personally, I think the WiiU would be ideal for something like a SimCity game, or a large scale strategy, especially a turn-based one. But those games have always been aimed squarely at the PC gamer. The folks that play console games aren't typically the ones that would buy into things like this.

RTS.. not so much. That really does need a KB/M.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Heart of the Swarm is coming out in 3 days in the US.

Considering that Star Craft is by far the premiere world wide RTS, I'd say it goes beyond just opinion. Even Warcraft 3 is still significant in tournaments.

So yeah, Blizzard, Relic and Creative Assembly are definitely the top of the RTS food chain. Each of which has a different take on real time strategy. Creative Assembly moving Macro play out into Turn Based Strategy with a slower moving real time battles. Relic with Macro play revolving around holding onto resource points. And Blizzard going with the standard Macro play of base building + resource gathering.

Microsoft is still up there as well. Age of Empires Online is one of the best resource gathering + base building RTS games around with more content than any other RTS in existence with more content constantly being added.

Regards,
SB

 

[Cyan]

Even ps1 had mouse accessory and ps3 works with standard USB KB+M, so I'm sure that the trend will continue with ps4.

If developers will actually support kb+m is another thing entirely..

As of currently this is the biggest limitation. Memory was a big limiting factor for RTS games before. Supreme Commander for instance, needed a lot of RAM to work properly on PC, and the game was released on the X360 -I purchased it- with some heavy tweaking and cuts here and there because of the *meagre* 512MB of RAM.

Controls seem to be an entirely different matter though. Kinect isn't going to make up for the lack of KB + M and Move could work to move swiftly around the map and quickly selecting units, but if keyboard shortcuts -as Silent Buddha already pointed out- are missing micromanagement is more difficult to deal with.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Seriously? SC is all about APM.

Is that true of SC, or only true of competitive SC? Because professional competition can make extremes of anything. On paper, and presumably in the solo game (I've only played the demo) it's the same as many other RTSes like AoE and Dune II. The fact some people have taken it to an extreme doesn't break the genre classification. Speed chess is still a strategy game.

I don't see competitive SC working on consoles, but RTSes definitely can. Civ Revolution was a good fit, but it bugged me due to its slowness at times - I haven't much patience for detailed turn-based gaming these days. Something like that running realtime, well, it'd need a UI overhaul, but it'd be a nice change from shooters. I bought Under Siege and was very disappointed. The controls don't work in realtime effectively, and it was basically a squad game. I'd like to see somethign Dune II like on consoles. I saw Z is available on Android but user reviews have it as very buggy. Tablets are pretty ideal for the genre IMO.

 

[Npl]

and a little bit more on-topic, how about just using a bluetooth mouse?
I mean whats the problem with using an existing game with its existing interface

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There isn't a desk to use a mouse on when sat in front of the TV.

 

[Npl]

There isn't a desk to use a mouse on when sat in front of the TV.

cant you use an ipad or something simlar as mousepad?
I suppose they must be usefull for something

 

[AlphaWolf]

If you ship it in the box.

<edit> or they could put a sticker on the box that says 'better with ipad'

 

[ERP]

I. I'd like to see somethign Dune II like on consoles.

There was a genesis version of Dune II, you could argue it added a lot to the genre in terms of control, for example the concept of context sensitive mouse(or rather controller clicks) for one.
It's a bit hard to find a copy it sold very few units, but I do have a credit on it

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Ensemble Studios before they were broken up did a pretty good RTS on consoles as well. Halo Wars. The controls were fairly well done. The only thing it really needed, IIRC, was a way to form command groups. It could also be fairly fast paced at times. I remember that one level where you have to protect the space transports when evacuating the city was pretty hectic.

I would like to have seen what Ensemble Studios could have done if they had access to Kinect as well as the console controller.

Regards,
SB

 

[orangpelupa]

on PS4 i think they can use the gamepad LED to act as cursor or use the touchpad to move cursor.

as for shortcut for micromanagement, it can be bound to the digital arrow button. or hold R2 + digital arrow button.

unfortunately it will be still annoying to do. The arm movement to move the cursor will be tiring and using that small touchpad to move cursor will be not comfortable.

but if the game is made with this limitation in mind. i think it could work. for example, instead a factory for producing one unit and commanding every one unit, it can be changed to producing one group of human unit.

same thing with tank factory. It produce one group of tank.
so its big enough to be easily clickable.

then how about on Xbox?
kinect voice command should work well but playing games while talking to the tv is not practical if you did not play alone.

i think wii u is a missed opportunity. the control scheme should works wonderful for RTS game.

EDIT:
maybe people will adapt to use the touchpad or gamepad move led to play RTS on console?

on FPS, dual analog successfully being used instead mouse even though it is less accurate and a lot slower than mouse.