Valve presentation on how to multithread a game engine

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Anandtech has a in-depth article up on Valves thoughts on how to go about multithreading a game engine.

At the very end it mentions the console situation.

As far as console hardware goes, the engine is already running on Xbox 360, with support for six simultaneous threads. The PC platform and Xbox 360 are apparently close enough that getting the software to run on both of them does not require a lot of extra effort. PS3 on the other hand.... The potential to support PS3 is definitely there, but it doesn't sound like Valve has devoted any serious effort into this platform as of yet. Given that the hardware isn't available for consumer purchase yet, that might make sense. The PS3 Cell processor does add some additional problems in terms of multithreading support. First, unlike Xbox 360 and PC processors, the processor cores available in Cell are not all equivalent. That means they will have to spend additional effort making sure that the software is aware of what cores can do what sort of tasks best (or at all as the case may be). Another problem that Cell creates is that there's not a coherent view of memory. Each core has its own dedicated high-speed local memory, so all of that has to be managed along with worrying about threading and execution capabilities. Basically, PS3/Cell takes the problems inherent with multithreading and adds a few more, so getting optimal utilization of the Cell processor is going to be even more difficult.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2868&p=1
 
Oh no... what have they done? The fanatics are going to use this to start flame wars all across the internet now. :(
 
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No one's hating. I think they have explained quite well why Cell can be a bit of a pain, especially when they're used to normal PC coding. Hardly unexpected, sure.
From what I heard from some developers is that the PS3 development environment is far more primitive compared to that of the XBox.
 
Reads pretty much like a sales presentation to me.

With the astounding conclusion that you should evaluate each problem seperately and pick the solution that is most applicable.
 
Well I am not expecting much from devs who are mostly accustomed to PC enviroments. My greatest expectations mostly rely on 1st and 2nd party console devs as well as some selected 3rd party console devs like Konami and Capcom. They have many times impressed and surpassed what people believed was possible on a console. And they brought out these results at the same time other devs claimed how difficult or impossible some things were on the PS2.
 
Well I am not expecting much from devs who are mostly accustomed to PC enviroments. My greatest expectations mostly rely on 1st and 2nd party console devs as well as some selected 3rd party console devs like Konami and Capcom. They have many times impressed and surpassed what people believed was possible on a console. And they brought out these results at the same time other devs claimed how difficult or impossible some things were on the PS2.

To quote a respected developer on a mailing list about a year ago, "experience with PS2 development won't help you much with PS3 development, except that you already have a much higher threshold of pain" :)
 
Not a lot to read here.
I mean, unless you had strictly no idea about what multi-threading and concurrent programming were all about, this article wouldn't tell you much.
Reads pretty much like a sales presentation to me.

With the astounding conclusion that you should evaluate each problem seperately and pick the solution that is most applicable.
Yep, past Valve presentations were more interesting from a technical, gritty details, standpoint.
From what I heard from some developers is that the PS3 development environment is far more primitive compared to that of the XBox.
Ah, so you heard about the ecstatic happiness that fills the heart of the PS3 programmers out there, the ones who had to deal with almost no IDE integration, or with extremely incoherent ones, for quite a long time... Only to get, recently (relatively speaking), some form of real IDE integration of the tools --not some good stuff, but at least it's "less worse".
You probably heard of PSGL too... "Nice" stuff here too, best way not to get the best performance out the machine. It has some kind of advantage, though, its obviousness. You can tell which games use PSGL and which don't only by looking at the screenshots. :LOL:
 
Vysez said:
You probably heard of PSGL too... "Nice" stuff here too, best way not to get the best performance out the machine.
To be fair - that's typical of most APIs. It was even true of Xbox1 DirectX.

But nevertheless, the environment has been a monumental step forward from PS2 days, and a considerable step forward from PSP as well. Ironically the tools I would bash the most right now on PS development are what used to be the highlight of PS2.

ERP said:
With the astounding conclusion that you should evaluate each problem seperately and pick the solution that is most applicable.
Well Anandtech has a remarkable ability for concluding the obvious. ;) Like in their recent 8800 article where they provided a couple dozen benchmarks to show how computing power/watts has been "gasp" increasing over time.
 
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Interesting article. It sounds as if Valve will actually have a good solution for multicore cpu's with the Source engine, even after all of Gabe's whining about having to deal with multithreading. I figured he'd just give up and make himself a sandwich instead :LOL:
 
you joking....right?

Everyone has different opinions... :p

LB: I believe they're also updating the HL2 SP levels with the newer tech too (maybe not much to rebuy the whole thing, but it's nice).

*sigh* I'll have to wait until they finish Ep3 before I get any mega huge compilation. I don't wanna get 5/6th of the story (or whatever the fraction is ;)). I've held out this long from the game...I can wait longer, just as long as I get the whole story.
 
So does this meen PS3 gets a shoddy HL2 port then?
Valve is not the devhouse porting the game to PS3. Their publisher, EA, handles that version.
Don't ask me if EA develops the game internally or if it did outsource it, because I don't know (And I don't care, given that, in both cases, a shoddy port can be expected).
you joking....right?
It's not mandatory to think that HL2 was an excellent game.
At least according to the current international laws, that is. ;)
 
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