Upgraded 360 with Natal (Rumor)

[Graham]

I suppose yes, as the scene isn't changing at all, the models, textures etc. can be taken as exactly the same. Scene-wide optimisations could be reused in principle, and you'd just have the grunt work of rendering the triangles. I dunno what percentage of rendering a scene that is, but I imagine it's a lot more than 20-30% that you'd need to double up on.

Assuming the eye separation was always horizontal, you could do some funky pixel scanline optimisations when drawing triangles. In the case of no occlusion, render the left or right view normally (assuming left or right eye dominance in the user - or choose the wider line of pixels) and interpolate those results to the opposite view.

The trouble comes when dealing with the corner cases, of course.
The big one would be dealing with view dependant effects like specular reflections. However give developers control over what shader constants are view dependant and you could optimise this case down quite a lot too.

Beyond that the problems probably more closely mirror 2x AA. Double the memory, double the bandwidth (ignoring cc), etc.

**EDIT**

Actually. No, I wasn't considering perspective warp.
Never mind

 

[Arwin]

Yes, it's the same scene viewed from two different positions, exactly the same cost as rendering two different frames with the player moving slightly between them.

I think what you'd need is a graphics card / renderer optimised to be able to render two independent camera views while sharing all the other aspects of rendering as much as possible. NVidia already created drivers for this I think that allows you play even a fair number of existing games using 3D goggles and such.

Maybe if you apply this really cleverly, you can support multi-player games relatively efficiently as well. You need to have and draw separate framebuffers for each player, but at least you should be able to share the geometry and textures in memory. It will definitely not be cheap, but the question is how expensive would it get? You can still do it similar to how split-screen is done now but if the graphics cards are optimised to render different camera viewpoints as much as possible.

The advantages of using 3D glass would be that you can basically add one for each player, and they'd be as immersed as any of the other players. Combined with motion controls - and you could even add some sensors in the 3D glasses for (more precise) head-tracking - it'd be pretty crazy and in some cases just like playing each on your own machine.

 

[Tap In]

nice Gamasutra article with Shane Kim discussing Natal and the company's view on the future.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Now you know, there are more cool (and old) VR demo videos in this forum.



May be because they/we have already tried the first wave of experiences personally ? and most of what MS showed are relatively old concepts (except for the skeleton generation). It's not difficult to call out their voice concept video either. They need to come up with more specific advantages for the z-camera.

OK, I can kinda see where some people are getting so much of their skepticism from if they believe the PS3 has had the ability to do all this stuff for the past 5 years and haven't really done much with it.

Regards,
SB

 

[patsu]

To put things in perspective...

No one except Nintendo has pushed natural interfaces to the non-gaming masses this gen. Both MS and Sony were focused on HD as the "next gen" experience. On top of that, Sony delivered SIXAXIS and PS Eye. According to wikipedia, "As of November 6, 2008, the EyeToy has sold 10.5 million units worldwide.". OTOH, J. Allard said he had an idea on motion sensing controller once, but did not pursue further.

The skepticism doesn't only come from Sony's slowness in pushing PS Eye to mass market despite EyeToy's success. Their price point is a big hurdle. There are developer comments expressing uncertainty about Natal too (due to lack of controller). And then of course, the Milo concept video made some people even more skeptical.

To be fair, natural interfaces are being added to existing games even as we speak (Some examples are SingStar, MLB 2009, EyePet, GRAW). Meanwhile, Microsoft needs to go to the next tier of consumers after the $199 price drop. They may not be able to rely on the current sales trend to take on Nintendo (because Nintendo will keep stacking natural interfaces on top of their existing offerings).

 

[manux]

As there isn't dedicated stereoscopid rendering/displays thread I decided to post news about lg's new 3d display here. Interesting thing is LG is predicting market of 30 million units in 2012 for 3d displays. The price of 47" lg display is ~30000$

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/18/lg-readies-first-47lh50-3d-lcd-tv-just-29-999-999-to-go/

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Are there any stats for reasons why people buy HD sets? I thought a lot of folk were updating from CRT to slim panels. Are they really expecting lots of recent HDTV purchasers to get a new 3D TV?

 

[wco81]

Are there any stats for reasons why people buy HD sets? I thought a lot of folk were updating from CRT to slim panels. Are they really expecting lots of recent HDTV purchasers to get a new 3D TV?

Form factor is certainly a big reason.

Also a lot of people happy with the way DVDs looked on big screens, not even HDTVs. So big-screen HDTVs rode the updraft of DVD growth for some years.

In the US, the weeks and months leading up to the Superbowl gooses sales of new TVs. I'm sure World Cup and UEFA Euro also does the same.

As for 3D, I haven't been paying attention. Does it require goggles? Because that will never fly.

It depends on what kind of programming is available. If big spectacles like the Superbowl is broadcast in 3D, that can't hurt. Again tho, no goggles.

They're releasing some blockbuster films in 3D theaters. Maybe some big titles would help with that, Star Wars re-released in 3D in theaters and in home video.

 

[manux]

As for 3D, I haven't been paying attention. Does it require goggles? Because that will never fly.

Movie theater/video projector solutions seem to use goggles. There are 3d displays that don't need goggles(i.e. sharp). My layman guess is that goggles are needed to provide larger area in which the 3d effect works(i.e. not only single sweet spot where 3d effect works good)