Upgraded 360 with Natal (Rumor)

[Nesh]

Anyone seen this?

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...ame-Examiner~y2009m6d13-Rumor-Next-Xbox-Specs

last night, 1Up revealed a rumor that Microsoft would be releasing a new Xbox during the fall of 2010. The system would be a slight upgrade over the Xbox 360 and would feature Natal. Aside from 1Up, other sites are now reporting this to be true and now some rumored specs are being reported.

The GPU will receive a slight upgrade. Currently, the Xbox 360 uses Shader Model 3 technology; the new Xbox will have Shader Model 5 technology and 32MD of eDRAM for 1080p output. The GPU will be designed by AMD and has a clock rate of 600Mhz.

The CPU, developed by IBM, will have 6 cores instead of 3 as found in the Xbox 360. Each core will have the same processing power. The main system RAM has been upgraded from 512MB to 1024MB. The system shall keep a Unified Memory Architecture.

Combined with MS's statements that with Natal they will rebrand and repackage it and it sounds possible.

As discussed before by some members a relaunch with a redesigned XBOX sounds like the best way to attract the mainstream and make the necessary impact with Natal.

I think they are trying to hit Sony and Nintendo from all fronts. Technology wise and gameplay wise.

Ps: Lets not forget also the old rumor from 2008

http://www.slashgear.com/xbox-360-games-to-be-forward-compatible-with-next-gen-console-1619427/

Latest Microsoft gaming rumor on the block is the surprising idea that the company is planning forward-compatibility for Xbox 360 games played on the third-generation Xbox. Where backward-compatibility is a console’s ability to play titles from a previous generation of hardware (e.g. original Xbox games played on the Xbox 360, either through hardware or software emulation), forward-compatibility would be gameplay, graphics, control and other features of a title “unlocked” by virtue of the next-gen console’s improved abilities.......but the latest educated-speculation tips it between 2010 and 2012.....

Rumored date of the 2008 rumor sounds suspiciously similar to Natal's release. It is also in line with the latest rumor.

MS is probably braking the mold of an introduction of a new console every "7ish" years by introducing a console that reduces the gap of visual quality between generations, and minimizes spending on research and marketing while maintaining the userbase without risking loosing it

For example lets assume MS releases this rumored XBOX and does well. If Sony decides to release a PS4 they will risk more and will need time to brake even just like with every generation. The visual difference between a PS4 and an upgraded XBOX will be less. The upgraded XBOX will maintain everything the original 360 had plus more. Business wise Sony might reconsider their plans.

The PS3 may also face stronger competition if this is true. And I dont know how Sony would react in such an occasion. PS4? PS3 comparatively offering less? Where's the strategic advantage?

 

[obonicus]

Anyone seen this?

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...ame-Examiner~y2009m6d13-Rumor-Next-Xbox-Specs



Combined with MS's statements that with Natal they will rebrand and repackage it and it sounds possible.

As discussed before by some members a relaunch with a redesigned XBOX sounds like the best way to attract the mainstream and make the necessary impact with Natal.

Yeah, it's in the technology forum. The examiner seems to be parroting info that's exclusive to some site that thinks Sega is about to launch a new console.

 

[TheChefO]

I would think if this were in fact true, that developers would have heard about this by now. They do need time to develop games and one year isn't much.

Then again, with full backward compatibility, it wouldn't be necessary as the Natal itself would be providing a very different experience to justify the increased cost.


Interesting idea if true, but I doubt it.

 

[rabidrabbit]

That would contradict what a MS rep told in E3, don't remember who, but he said the xbox360 would be there in 2015.
If they replace it with a new console in 2010, I don't see many xb360 compatible games being relased other than in XBLA maybe (well, maybe that's where the 2015 comes from...).
There's no way the xb360 woud play the new Wiibox games, would there.

 

[TheChefO]

...Sega is about to launch a new console.

Wow that would be a waste.

Sega is a shell of the company it once was. I don't think they have the internal studio talent anymore to support a console. As we saw with Dreamcast, they would be dead in the water without big support from 3rd party devs.

Sega should instead focus on trying to acquire and retain top talent to make great games again.

 

[Nesh]

That would contradict what a MS rep told in E3, don't remember who, but he said the xbox360 would be there in 2015.
If they replace it with a new console in 2010, I don't see many xb360 compatible games being relased other than in XBLA maybe (well, maybe that's where the 2015 comes from...).
There's no way the xb360 woud play the new Wiibox games, would there.

Well the 2008 rumor mentioned forward compatibility. The new console will be an upgraded 360 based on the new rumor. Forward compatibility means simultaneous support of two 360 models+new launch to accompany the introduction of Natal

 

[TheChefO]

The PS3 may also face stronger competition if this is true. And I dont know how Sony would react in such an occasion. PS4? PS3 comparatively offering less? Where's the strategic advantage?

Sony could (and should IMO) follow this exact plan as the Cell is designed to scale and scale well in design while providing more bang for the buck than this expanded xcpu design would provide.

Of course Sony would have to grab a new gpu from Nvidia or ATI, but the overall architecture of ps3 is better designed to scale in this fashion while maintaining backwards compatibility.

The only advantage Microsoft would have in this regard is timing and if they are in fact targeting next year, then Sony will not have enough time to match.



Of course, if this rumor is true, the pc gaming connection that MS has right now will look like a stroke of genius as porting these more advanced games to the new xb360 will be the same trivial experience as it is to port to the old xb360.

 

[TheChefO]

Well the 2008 rumor mentioned forward compatibility. The new console will be an upgraded 360 based on the new rumor. Forward compatibility means simultaneous support of two 360 models+new launch to accompany the introduction of Natal

So the new xb360plus will have every console including Natal?

 

[Nesh]

So the new xb360plus will have every console including Natal?

I am a little confused by this question

Can you rephrase it?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Do Console devs "really" want more PC centric devlopement with having to support both a high settings version and low settings version? Not to mention if they are already doing crossplatform they'll have to possibly have 2-3 sets of art assets.

I find it rather hard to give much credence to a more powerful X360 where you would (presumably) still be required by MS to support all X360s sold from launch as well as optionally include higher quality art assets for the "new" X360.

Regards,
SB

 

[TheChefO]

I am a little confused by this question

Can you rephrase it?

Nevermind.




I personally think this is to much change. It's too confusing to the consumer they are trying to draw in.

Although, if the only natal package available is the xb360plus, then at least they can get the unit sales up quickly.

Problem is, the new xb360plus would be sold into homes that wouldn't much care for the upgraded hardware.

 

[TheChefO]

Do Console devs "really" want more PC centric devlopement with having to support both a high settings version and low settings version? Not to mention if they are already doing crossplatform they'll have to possibly have 2-3 sets of art assets.

I find it rather hard to give much credence to a more powerful X360 where you would (presumably) still be required by MS to support all X360s sold from launch as well as optionally include higher quality art assets for the "new" X360.

Regards,
SB

I would think the issue of storage space for having these different art assets would also be an issue.

The only advantage to the consumer that would likely be seen would be downloadable upgrades (for a fee of course) and this business model would likely be attractive for both MS and devs.

Of course we might also get smoother frame rates for existing games which would be nice.




I wonder what the difference in hardware cost would be for this xb360plus?

 

[Nesh]

Do Console devs "really" want more PC centric devlopement with having to support both a high settings version and low settings version? Not to mention if they are already doing crossplatform they'll have to possibly have 2-3 sets of art assets.

I find it rather hard to give much credence to a more powerful X360 where you would (presumably) still be required by MS to support all X360s sold from launch as well as optionally include higher quality art assets for the "new" X360.

Regards,
SB

Assuming that MS does make such a release there would be in essence two models.

The basic hardware in every 360 since launch is exactly the same. The HDD is the main hardware difference. Only the new model will have different performance specs.

Do they create multiple assets for PC games, or standard scalable assets?

I personally think this is to much change. It's too confusing to the consumer they are trying to draw in.

Although, if the only natal package available is the xb360plus, then at least they can get the unit sales up quickly.

Problem is, the new xb360plus would be sold into homes that wouldn't much care for the upgraded hardware.

If the rumor is true I think they will sell Natal separately for those that have the current XBOXs and the current model will be completely replaced in retail by the upgraded XBOX that will be packaged with Natal.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Do they create multiple assets for PC games, or standard scalable assets?

Well the rumor states a different shader model in the "new" X360. So at the very least there's the potential for different shader code.

Similar to how many PC games will have different code paths for different shader generations.

And yes, in some cases, PC games do have multiple art assets. Sacred 2 is the latest one that comes immediately to mind with a high resolution texture pack. There's also been games with differing levels of models.

Although as some devs have stated on the board. With regards to art assets you can create high quality assets and then downgrade them for use in lower settings. Although even that takes some time and effort.

Basically either way you look at it, it would be adding more developement time = more money. Or if they didn't want to go that route. Same money spent = less dev time for the game as more time must be spent to account for differing levels of quality.

Assuming, of course, a dev would truly try to leverage the additional power of a more rumored more powerful X360 with shader model 5 hardware.

Although perhaps if it was just as simple as more powerful X360 ONLY allows for full time AA/AF and nothing else. That might have some credence.

Regards,
SB

 

[AzBat]

Well the rumor states a different shader model in the "new" X360. So at the very least there's the potential for different shader code.

Similar to how many PC games will have different code paths for different shader generations.

There's 2 different rumors going here. One is that Natal releases as a new console in 2010 & another questionable rumor that has a bunch of tech specs. You're referencing the latter, which I don't think should be included in this discussion.

Nesh, thanks for remembering the "forward compatibility" rumor. It intrigued me at the time & I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of how they could make it work. Make the base Xbox 360 tech the minimum systems requirements & then add more RAM, hard drive space or different input device support for a 360.5 system?

Tommy McClain

 

[TheChefO]

Natal as a separate platform would be the best idea from a marketing perspective.

The consumers Natal will bring into the fold are not the same ones interested in traditional games. They should have a different section at the game store and a different box bundle.

If they're already planning on putting this much effort into the advertising campaign, they may as well spin it off as a separate platform.

Any middle ground that exists will likely be xb360 owners bleeding over to Natal, not the other way around.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

There's 2 different rumors going here. One is that Natal releases as a new console in 2010 & another questionable rumor that has a bunch of tech specs. You're referencing the latter, which I don't think should be included in this discussion.

Actually I was referencing eveything postulated in the original post, so it's relevant.

But I don't think MS would seriously consider releasing Xbox 360.5 with updated graphics core, more edo, more ram, faster CPU, etc...

However, I could see if MS just expanded say the amount of EDO and a speed bump to the GPU to allow for true full time AA as they wanted originally.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Nesh, thanks for remembering the "forward compatibility" rumor. It intrigued me at the time & I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of how they could make it work. Make the base Xbox 360 tech the minimum systems requirements & then add more RAM, hard drive space or different input device support for a 360.5 system?

Many moons ago MS were talking about the XB platform becoming more of a specification to which other manufacturers could build devices, and hardware/games could be rated by a star system for which level of platform they require. Basically a simplification of the PC model. So there is some support to this notion, but really it'd be better suited for the PC space. I suppose the main reason to want to is to create a minimum spec box that runs all the games okay, the original joy of console gaming that has had a severe battering this gen with low framerates and tear galore, but to not limit your machine so you lose all the hardcore who are willing to spend more on top gear to PC. If the XB platform was linked to the PC hardware space, all those who talk about Crysis being pants on consoles could be wooed to become console games! And perhaps if the upgrade paths are limited, developers wouldn't need to worry too much about compatibility? Still, it'd probably break. PC gaming is a mess of compatibility issues, and until there exists a system of perfect compatibility, there is no option for console gaming becoming PC like IMO. Those who hate PCs will avoid them and stick to the simple Wii closed-box model. Not to mention the developer overhead of supporting multiple conifugrations.

 

[assen]

Why would MS do this? To satisfy some technophiliac jerking circle demanding more AF and ever higher shader models?

It will increase costs, fragment the market, frustrate developers and increase the burden on them. Natal is targeting the same people who think Wii Sports is "good enough".

I don't even buy the "lite" version of this theory, which claims that Microsoft will sell the same hardware under a different brand, because Xbox is somehow tainted by association with hardcore gaming. Xbox is a very powerful brand in the US, and growing daily in EU; the Halo/GEars image won't hurt a good product with a clear marketing message more than the violet lunchbox with prancing dinosaurs and plumbers in the previous generation hurt Nintendo with the Wii.

 

[Brimstone]

Why would MS do this? To satisfy some technophiliac jerking circle demanding more AF and ever higher shader models?

One reason would be to allow more memory for the operating system and user interface. XB360 hardware is locked and reserved at 32mb. This could be a bottleneck right now for the software engineers that have all sorts of ideas on how to improve the user interface. If they want to come up with a new fancy interface that takes advantage of Natal, additional memory would probably help along with a little extra processing power.


If they double the GDDR memory pool to 1GB, they might quadruple the Microsoft OS reserved memory to 128mb.