Trusted Computing Platform Alliance...thoughts?

[pcchen]

thats not same as having chip that holds keys to your computer inside and has higher access then yourself.....i can live with what you mentioned above, but i am not sure i gonna use computer that can give access to my files to someone without knowing....

bloody hell, thats why i DO have firewall, AV, anti-spyware and use Firefox...

from what i read TC is like buying computer with preinstalled trojan.... thnx, but i think i'll pass on that offer....

I don't think it's like this. TC basically provides an environment for programs to run without anything to "probe" it. It does not have "higher access" than yourself.

Basically, in current computers, softwares can already access your files to anyone without letting you know about it. Not everyone have source codes of Microsoft Windows. Heck, most softwares everyone uses do not have source codes available. How can you trust them?

If I am not mistaken, TC is designed around DRM. "Security" is basically a byproduct, and not necessarily better than what we have now. Of course, if the web browser runs in its own trusted environment, viruses or trojan horses can't intercept your password or credit card numbers so easily, but it's still not impossible as web browsers will still have security holes.

 

[silence]

did you read those articles? its obvious that someone will have higher access to your TC comp then you.... there is no other way to make all checking and allowing and everything, there is server with master key that can access your comp and say "NO!".....

and i dont like it. i really think that this chip they gonna put is basically no more then preinstalled trojan, only problem is it would be REALLY hard to remove it and continue to work....

dunno for you, but i dont feel confortable developing something i think its new and good idea and knowing someone might check what i write.....

 

[pcchen]

did you read those articles? its obvious that someone will have higher access to your TC comp then you.... there is no other way to make all checking and allowing and everything, there is server with master key that can access your comp and say "NO!".....

Sorry, but I don't think those articles are very accurate.
It's basically like saying that processor ID can violate your privacy.

 

[silence]

Sorry, but I don't think those articles are very accurate.
It's basically like saying that processor ID can violate your privacy.

any yet, Intel had to stop with that. But TC is about someone somewhere having control over what runs on my comp...which is little bit too much for my taste....

simple.

 

[pcchen]

any yet, Intel had to stop with that. But TC is about someone somewhere having control over what runs on my comp...which is little bit too much for my taste....

simple.

Intel stopped processor ID does not mean that processor ID can really vioalte your privacy as those people said.

If you really think that Microsoft and others can build a PC platform which requires all software to be signed to run on that computer, I have to say, you put too much faith in Microsoft's power

(By the way, if Microsoft really wanted to do that, they can do it now. They don't need any special hardware to do it.)

 

[Frank]

(By the way, if Microsoft really wanted to do that, they can do it now. They don't need any special hardware to do it.)

What they want, is to make sure that you absolutely cannot watch media / run programs without a valid license and certificate. That way, everyone has to buy Windows.

What they want to prevent at all cost, is Break Once, Run Anywhere. If it is possible to rip the unprotected content, people would switch to a platform they can use to access it for free. So, they want to make absolutely sure, that you need to exchange keys with a Trusted Authority (a certificate) to be able to access that media. Every time you use it.

To make that happen, they have to prevent you from being able to run uncertified / unlicensed software that can access that media. And they have to be able to delete unlicensed media and revoke access to the key when your license runs out.

Which means, that you need the hardware to only run encrypted streams after receiving the correct key pair. Because if the OS handles the copy protection, you can crack / patch it. Just like all other software solutions.

So, yes, they could do it today. They already do, in many ways. But it can only be made mandatory when the user has no choice in the matter anymore.

 

[pcchen]

Well, that only limited to DRM enabled programs. It has nothing to do with other programs. You can still run any program at your choice.

It simple to prevent "break once, run anywhere." Just revoke the cracked keys. That's how DVD-Audio's protection works. Of course, you can't save the cracked media, but since it's already cracked, you can't really help it. However, you can still protect newer media, since they don't have the old cracked keys.

TC, at least for now, does not intent to require softwares to be "certified" to run on your computer. If they are going to that direction, well, I believe they'll be doomed to failure long before that.

And no, I don't like DRM at all. I think the user should have reasonable right with the video/audio/whatever they purchased to use. If I want to put the latest album to my portable audio player, I should be able to do that. If I want to transfer the latest DVD movie I purchased to my portable video player, I should be able to do that.

On the other hand, DRM is probably a necessary evil. Without DRM, some business model won't be able to survive. For example, a pay-per-view video-on-demand service won't work without DRM: I can just record everything I just streamed from the server, and I can watch it all the time without paying any additional fees. Therefore, without DRM, a lower priced "online renting service" won't work, at least on a PC.

Of course, if TC failed to survive on PC world (I won't be surprised if that happens), then we probably won't see those services on a PC. We probably won't be able to play next generation DVD on a PC. Online video-on-demand systems will have to rely on a custom designed systems (a set-top box, perhaps). It does not necessarily a bad thing, though...

 

[Frank]

Yes, I agree.

What they did was: the safe TC computer can run a virtual Windows PC, in which you can run uncertified programs. And while certified programs can access both, the uncertified programs only "see" the virtual machine.

So, if you make a document with a certified Word, there is supposed to be no way to access it with any other (unprotected) application. It will only be accessible by certified Microsoft applications. Which is the whole deal to Microsoft.

The same goes for other media: while you could still access your old media with both the old and new applications, the new media will only be accessible with the new, certified media if you have a valid license.

 

[DudeMiester]

When longhorn comes out is when I'll finally upgrade to Linux, because almost certainly by then the distros will be so polished and user-friendly that it would make using a Mac look difficult. Ok, maybe not that easy, but still more straightforward then it is now.

Still, f***ing DRM, I was looking forward to the new longhorn interface, and the media conglomerates had to make the whole damn thing unusable. Maybe instead of getting Linux, I'll just burn down the RIAA and Fox HQs.

 

[pascal]

Time to move to a new plataform.

 

[silence]

Time to move to a new plataform.

i downloaded 3 Linux distros since this topic started and now i am looking at them.... to see if i can do my work using Linux....

 

[Frank]

Time to move to a new plataform.

i downloaded 3 Linux distros since this topic started and now i am looking at them.... to see if i can do my work using Linux....

Knoppix works extremely well, you don't need to install anything and I think it has everything you need out of the box. Just put the CD/DVD in, reboot, enable the network, mount a homedir and you're ready. And if you're satisfied, install it to the harddisk. It has better plug-and-play and driver support than Windows, straight from the CD.

 

[silence]

Knoppix works extremely well, you don't need to install anything and I think it has everything you need out of the box. Just put the CD/DVD in, reboot, enable the network, mount a homedir and you're ready. And if you're satisfied, install it to the harddisk. It has better plug-and-play and driver support than Windows, straight from the CD.

thnx for the tip.....1 more to download

 

[ANova]

Fedora Core 3!

 

[suryad]

Looks like I am gonna have to get good with Gentoo. This kernel compiling from scratch seems kind of fun and probably something like a benchmark. Their documentation seems fantastic too but the problem is that I am not a Linux person since I dont have as much experience with it. I can learn but the motivation to learn it wont be there since I cannot and will not be able to game on it the way I can on XP Damnit MS and their willingness to squeeze the hell out of the customers! I want to own my own box!!! I dont want to prevented from installing anything!

 

[silence]

well.... as i said, this might push Linux to desktops. and if there is demand, then there will be supply....which means you will be able to game on Linux.

as i see this whole concept it is great for everyone untill you get to last part (which will be written in longest possible words in smallest possible font somewhere on 379th page of EULA) and which will state that you no longer control your own PC. that someone from somewhere can shut down things on your comp as he wishes....

here is example...lets say you work on something really important (okies, this is little imaginitive, but not impossible) and you are paying monthly fee for using some software which you need to work.... you get deadline in 5 days and work isnt even close to finished.... you forget about your bloody monthly fee and as you work company that owns program simply shuts you down and deletes recent files made with that program.....


this is little bit too much i suppose, but maybe not impossible......
as i said....Linux here i come.....

 

[Frank]

you forget about your bloody monthly fee and as you work company that owns program simply shuts you down and deletes recent files made with that program.....

Actually, that is the whole idea.

But guys, there is no rush. The last deadline I heard puts the launch of Longhorn at Q1 2007. It seems they really have a hard time getting the market ready for it.

 

[suryad]

Well Guru if that is the case, and if what I hear is going to be true about SP3 and IE7, Avalon, winfs and so on...a host of new technologies that is the cornerstone of Longhorn, then why the heck do we even need to upgrade? And yeah Linux is looking more and more awesome. One of these days when I buy a bigger hdd for my laptop i am gonna relegate my current hdd to purely Linux. I need to get comfortable in that environment fast!!

 

[silence]

you forget about your bloody monthly fee and as you work company that owns program simply shuts you down and deletes recent files made with that program.....

Actually, that is the whole idea.

But guys, there is no rush. The last deadline I heard puts the launch of Longhorn at Q1 2007. It seems they really have a hard time getting the market ready for it.

acctually.....GREAT!!.......
thats just what i need.... really, imagine you forget to pay monthly fee due to too much work cause deadline is in 5 days and someone shuts you down and deletes files....

i would fucking bomb the place and fucker who put that crap on my comp.....i can see it : i am just about to finish new CMS for major client,i have 5 days to deliver and god knows how many lines of code to write/check and i am all in that...and BOOOOOOOOOOOM....... all deleted cause i was fucking working my ass to make my living....

i'll check for few more Linux distros and if they put that Fritz chip on every mobo.... i swear to god i wont buy one, i'll rather work on "old" comp then put that piece of crap in my comp......

for most tasks you DONT need super-mega-new-turbo comp...so i'll buy mobo that doesnt have that shit nad hope others will also vote with their money and make people behind all this shit realise it wont work

/me crosses fingers

 

[suryad]

Agreed, silence. IT is massively discomforting for me to realize that just because the DRM is not implemented in the software does not mean that it cant not be implemented in the hardware format. GRRR!!! This is pissing me off!! Open Source motherboards anyone?!