Tomb Raider

[joker454]

Here we go guys, this should be more than enough to make your minds up over which model you prefer:

I still thought the skin color on the definitive edition was off so I looked around a bit on some of the a/v forums I tend to read now as I'm into color grading and that sort of stuff. I found this image:

...as a way to compare. The middle image is the "correct" color and the smaller images around her show the color that was pushed into that image to give those different looks, with the images number showing what color. Apparently images like that are used to color correct displays. Anyways you can see how the original games skin color is a closer match to what is considered correct for a typical Caucasian female. I picked that image of Lara from the game because she was outside so in theory she is being lit with typical 5600k daylight. Now it's possible that the definitive edition takes into account stuff like how hot her skin temperature is and how much she has exerted herself, and colors her skin appropriately. Maybe that would account for the red push in that particular picture.

 

[djskribbles]

So after my skin has been tanned, the color of my skin is considered incorrect?

Reference images or colors are used to standardize calibration and to compare displays, not to define skin color. There's no right or wrong color for skin.

I have been a DIY calibrator for 3-4 years and I have all of my displays calibrated with an i1Display 3 profiled to an i1pro spectro. They went a bit heavy on the saturation of the skin, but I see nothing technically wrong with either picture... they're just different.

 

[nightshade]

I still thought the skin color on the definitive edition was off so I looked around a bit on some of the a/v forums I tend to read now as I'm into color grading and that sort of stuff. I found this image:

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20519276/Ringaround2.png

...as a way to compare. The middle image is the "correct" color and the smaller images around her show the color that was pushed into that image to give those different looks, with the images number showing what color. Apparently images like that are used to color correct displays. Anyways you can see how the original games skin color is a closer match to what is considered correct for a typical Caucasian female. I picked that image of Lara from the game because she was outside so in theory she is being lit with typical 5600k daylight. Now it's possible that the definitive edition takes into account stuff like how hot her skin temperature is and how much she has exerted herself, and colors her skin appropriately. Maybe that would account for the red push in that particular picture.

All of that and you are forgetting one essential fact, skin does gets redder when it's cold. She's on top of a tall radio tower and it's snowing.

 

[Cyan]

So after my skin has been tanned, the color of my skin is considered incorrect?

Reference images or colors are used to standardize calibration and to compare displays, not to define skin color. There's no right or wrong color for skin.

I have been a DIY calibrator for 3-4 years and I have all of my displays calibrated with an i1Display 3 profiled to an i1pro spectro. They went a bit heavy on the saturation of the skin, but I see nothing technically wrong with either picture... they're just different.

To me the skin of the image number 4 looks like the pink colour of a pig's skin. Not human...

3 and 5 reek Photoshop (5 would be bad Photoshop though, too yellow).

2 too red, 6 too pink.

Image 1 too green, drab and lifeless.

In fact image 1 is the kind of image that makes me feel sick, or that's how I remember it from a TV I had time ago that was dying and everything looked so green on it, I got motion sickness, it was serious. Also not realistic.

3 and the center image are the ones I like the most. :smile2:

joker454's image reminds me of this one I once used --long story.

 

[joker454]

So after my skin has been tanned, the color of my skin is considered incorrect?

No but I assume it's not tan in this case since when her clothing gets torn the skin revealed is the same color.

Reference images or colors are used to standardize calibration and to compare displays, not to define skin color. There's no right or wrong color for skin.

I have been a DIY calibrator for 3-4 years and I have all of my displays calibrated with an i1Display 3 profiled to an i1pro spectro. They went a bit heavy on the saturation of the skin, but I see nothing technically wrong with either picture... they're just different.

Well I am genuinely curious why it looks the way it does. I've filmed hundreds of girls portrait style under all kinds of lights be it tungsten, fluorescent, led, sunlight, cloudy, overcast, warm, cool, you name it and looking at my footage I've never had skin look like it does on the definitive edition. Then again my models are not being shot at or running away from crashing aircraft, so I'm wondering if they are dynamically changing her skin tone to account for her situation. The static pictures lose all context which is maybe why they look weird to me, but if she has just run up a hill and escaped death then maybe that's why her skin looks that way. I'm curious if the definitive edition does anything like that with skin tone, or if she just always appears to have that red push.

All of that and you are forgetting one essential fact, skin does gets redder when it's cold. She's on top of a tall radio tower and it's snowing.

Yeah you see that's what I'm wondering, are they taking that into account and is her skin color changing based on her situation. If the definitive edition does that then that would be super cool, maybe even a first? I don't recall any other game attempting that.

 

[djskribbles]

What you see from the images is completely dependent on how your display is showing the colors. Not sure if your display is calibrated or not. On my calibrated display, I don't see much red push at all... it's more of a tanned orange skin, which is very typical. It's just a bit heavy considering the setting of the game, but that's an artistic choice that they decided on.

 

[Cyan]

What you see from the images is completely dependent on how your display is showing the colors. Not sure if your display is calibrated or not. On my calibrated display, I don't see any red push... it's more of a tanned orange skin, which is very typical. It's just a bit heavy considering the setting of the game, but that's an artistic choice that they decided on.

Are you watching those images on a calibrated TV? I am on a laptop. I got my TV calibrated -LOVE it-, I shall check Beyond3D using the console's browser then.

But judging from what I see on my laptop I don't see how my observation could change much, even if it is not scientific, but there it is.

 

[djskribbles]

Yes, I have my own calibration equipment that is qualified to be used for professional THX/ISF calibrations (i1display 3 + i1pro).

Also worth noting is that there's a good possibility that the encoding of the video will affect the color. Better to use uncompressed images for comparison.

 

[joker454]

Are you watching those images on a calibrated TV? I am on a laptop. I got my TV calibrated -LOVE it-, I shall check Beyond3D using the console's browser then.

But judging from what I see on my laptop I don't see how my observation could change much, even if it is not scientific, but there it is.

Calibrated or not, I'm looking at them all on the same display that I'm looking at my own personal footage. So whatever weirdness my display may or may not have should be affecting all content but I only see the red push on the Tomb Raider content. Here, I quickly took a screen grab from some of my unused video footage of Jezebel and removed the url watermark so that it doesn't appear like I'm shamelessly promoting my websites. There's no photoshop or touch ups at all in this pic:

There's no artificial light on that one, just a typical girl outdoors on a sunny day. The sun is behind her so she is mostly lit from bounced light. There's always skin color variances but her tone doesn't stray far off from what I typically see. If anything skin tones tend to vary to the lighter side and not more reddish. Like I said though she isn't running from murderous people on an island, hence why maybe Lara has that red push if they have indeed implemented dynamic skin tone based on her situation. If someone has the definitive edition I'm be curious to know if her skin tone changes based not on the lighting but on her situation.

 

[djskribbles]

The color of her skin drastically changes depending on the setting of the game.

http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/0/3/9/8/PS4_033.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/0/3/9/8/PS4_029.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/0/3/9/8/PS4_015.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/0/3/9/8/PS4_013.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/0/3/9/8/PS4_011.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

In most 'normal' conditions, her skin tone looks completely normal in my eyes.

 

[Cyan]

Calibrated or not, I'm looking at them all on the same display that I'm looking at my own personal footage. So whatever weirdness my display may or may not have should be affecting all content but I only see the red push on the Tomb Raider content. Here, I quickly took a screen grab from some of my unused video footage of Jezebel and removed the url watermark so that it doesn't appear like I'm shamelessly promoting my websites. There's no photoshop or touch ups at all in this pic:

There's no artificial light on that one, just a typical girl outdoors on a sunny day. The sun is behind her so she is mostly lit from bounced light. There's always skin color variances but her tone doesn't stray far off from what I typically see. If anything skin tones tend to vary to the lighter side and not more reddish. Like I said though she isn't running from murderous people on an island, hence why maybe Lara has that red push if they have indeed implemented dynamic skin tone based on her situation. If someone has the definitive edition I'm be curious to know if her skin tone changes based not on the lighting but on her situation.

The image looks natural, uniform and correct to me. Who is Jezebel?

 

[joker454]

The color of her skin drastically changes depending on the setting of the game.

http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/0/3/9/8/PS4_033.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/0/3/9/8/PS4_029.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/0/3/9/8/PS4_015.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/0/3/9/8/PS4_013.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/5/0/3/9/8/PS4_011.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

In most 'normal' conditions, her skin tone looks completely normal in my eyes.

Yeah they look different but the lighting and locations are also different. What we need for example is her chilling outdoors in a particular location and lighting, then in the middle of a gunfight in the same location and lighting, then having her heavily exert herself in the same location and lighting and seeing if her skin tone changes in each of those. The pics you supplied show various location and lighting situations which isn't really what I was curious about because I know that will change her tone. We need pics that keep location and lighting the same but change her circumstances. I was more curious if they are trying to simulate things like increased blood flow, or cold temperature like nightshade had pointed out in her skin tone. I think that would be a first but I could be wrong there. Stuff like sweat, drt, wounds, etc have been done dynamically on skin but I don't think skin tone itself has been handled so organically in a game yet.

The image looks natural, uniform and correct to me. Who is Jezebel?

Just a local model.

 

[RudeCurve]

Here's a link to the video I recorded. It's done on a HX20 so it's not the best. Also captured at a max of 50Hz as mentioned before.

Thanks for taking the time to record and post that. It does still look kind stiff especially when she's running and moving around. Real flame physics would be a lot more "soft" and less stiff. The graphics and framerate does look good though.:smile:

As for the skin color, it's really not the skin at all it's the whole image. If you look at her hair in those same images it has the same "saturation" increase/decrease as her skin....so no it's not a skin thing, it's a global color saturation thing.

 

[joker454]

As for the skin color, it's really not the skin at all it's the whole image. If you look at her hair in those same images it has the same "saturation" increase/decrease as her skin....so no it's not a skin thing, it's a global color saturation thing.

I think they are slightly crushing the blacks as well to get a bit of extra pop, which is something people often respond to.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Thanks for taking the time to record and post that. It does still look kind stiff especially when she's running and moving around. Real flame physics would be a lot more "soft" and less stiff. The graphics and framerate does look good though.:smile:

As for the skin color, it's really not the skin at all it's the whole image. If you look at her hair in those same images it has the same "saturation" increase/decrease as her skin....so no it's not a skin thing, it's a global color saturation thing.

That's the problem with a none frame rate synchronised off screen capture. It's a lot more fluid in real life than can be portrayed in a video like this.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Damn all these sexy screens here, I caved in, sold my KZSF to my friend and bought this ! Hope it turns out good ! :fear: I really liked my KZSF.

 

[ultragpu]

Damn all these sexy screens here, I caved in, sold my KZSF to my friend and bought this ! Hope it turns out good ! :fear: I really liked my KZSF.

Renegade brother what have you done! As much as I like Tomb Raider on PS4, graphically it's still not KZ caliber overall. Isn't there any ps360 games that you can trade in?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I still thought the skin color on the definitive edition was off so I looked around a bit on some of the a/v forums I tend to read now as I'm into color grading and that sort of stuff. I found this image:

The DE looks does look "off" in comparison pictures but it looks great in game. This may be one of those technologies where more realism isn't always preferred much like you don't always want fully realistic lighting if you're trying to create a specific atmosphere.

Having played the original on PS3 a year ago and on PS4 now, old Lara looks quite pale and washed out. Which one is right? I don't know.

Having progressed more into the game where I'm now engaging in combat, the higher frame rate really makes a difference!

 

[-tkf-]

"only" 14 dollars difference between cheapest danish retail (amazon can't compete..!) and DD edition.

Is Tomb DE cheaper than other games, it seems so..

 

[DieH@rd]

At least Square did not went with full-on EA pricing on UK PSN. TR is 45 pounds, and EA games are 55.