Thinking of trading in the 350Z...

[digitalwanderer]

Good morning and happy turkey day all, and thanks for all the suggestions....that's kind of what I was looking for.

Does the TT have a backseat? One thing we're going to be looking for is definately a backseat, the two-seater thing with two kids is a pain.

We have an SUV already, my 98 Pathfinder SE. Not that we might not get another one, but I thought I'd point it out.

I'm gonna go do some research on all your suggestions, thanks for giving me something to do over coffee!

BTW-Oh, we're also kind of thinking of maybe finally just biting the bullet and picking up a Suburban. With GM's current financial situation we're thinking we might be able to pick up a deal, and I have always loved Suburbans. I had three growing up. My first car was a '72 C20 Suburban and I learned how to drive a manual on my brother's '77.

Besides, something about 9 passenger seating sounds damned useful...and I know by experience that if you do get in an accident in a 'burban you're generally going to survive it pretty well.

Off for coffee and car cruising, please keep the suggestions coming as I'm feeling all clueless.

EDITED BITS: I just checked out that Audi SUV and gotta remention, UNDER $30K please! We're not going to push this one any further past that mark, this car has to slide in under $30k to make this all feasible and do-able this weekend.

 

[digitalwanderer]

I second the Subaru.

I have a LegacyGT wagon, "ok" gas mileage (better than your Z, for sure), lots of zoom, and AWD. And 0K, to boot.

I don't particularly like how the wagon looks, but I must say I was taken with their sedan. I'm not sure if my wife will like it or not though....but thanks for the recomendation.

On a sidenote, the Z actually gets pretty good mileage...about 18-23mpg depending on how we drive it. ("pretty good" being relative, my Pathfinder gets about 11-12mpg)

 

[mkillio]

The M35X is a very nice car, around $10k more than the G though.

 

[_xxx_]

Well, that's kinda 'duh'...I thought it's common knowledge that Audi & VW cars share a lot of parts between different price classes. Like most car manufacturers do around the globe.
Following that logic, the Merc SLK must be crap as well because the Crossfire is far cheaper.

No. There are many factors involved. Crossfire is the _old_ SLK. The platform which has been in production for ages, cheap, optimized parts and it has some 50% of the features that SLK had. Meaning, no development costs, very low cost for testing since most of it has been tested to death already, lower costs for logistics etc., etc.

BMW and Mercedes(a bit less so) also have tech which is shared from the 7/S-Class down to 1/C-Class, but the lower you go, the more features are being stripped away and cheaper/less fancy package/materials used.

Blah. Got carried away a bit As for Audi, they don't add much more features or make it much "better", but use the stuff "as is" and add a few shiny covers. In many cases, not always of course. The A3 for example has _nothing_ more or different than Golf except the optics and a more sporty suspension setup, but costs much more. The A8 is another beast, but that's more about brand positioning and such, so I won't go into that.

In the end it's all just about strategy, it's mostly the same engineers working in all these companies at some point anyway and all use the same circle of suppliers.

 

[_xxx_]

BUT on last weeks Top Gear, Jeremy Clarkson rated the new Audi RS4 better than an M3, and I believe him

M3 is already a few years old model, so no wonder. But in terms of what you can do with it on a race track, I call it impossible.

 

[DemoCoder]

Wha, no hybrid Digi?

I'd go with the Subaru WRX.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Wha, no hybrid Digi?

I'd go with the Subaru WRX.

Show me I hybrid, I'm totally open.

My wife is having second thoughts this morning, she said she's sure that if she would have had a full tank of gas she wouldn't have slid...her tank is pretty much on fumes.

Buit she's still cruising car sites, so who knows?

Any ideas are open; it's just gotta be able to sit four, be under $30k, and be a good car for getting around in winter.

Oh, and she has to love it...

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I still think Subaru is best bet. The only hiccup with subies is the gearboxes, otherwise normally really good.
Mitsubishi is only so so quality. GM = Shite quality to the nth degree. Since you want to seat 4 I would probably pass on the Skyline, the back seats are normally a bit cramped, and the newer models use the same engine as the Primera which is a bit lame.
Mazda is bringing out a really really nice 4wd souped up Mazda6. It should be good, Jeremy Clarkson loved the Mazda6 so this should only be better.
Toyota Celicas are good cars as well, but I am not sure how much room they have in the back. You could also go for a Mazda RX8

 

[Moloch]

Outside the Quattro, the Subaru WRX, Mitsubishi Evolution and my favourite Skyline GTR, also Honda Integra Type-R, the Peugot 206 is excellent as well.

QFT
wrx or evo++

Or an rx8.. those are kinda interersting.
Not nearly as fast as the others, has a softer ride and is a 4 seater...
It has no torque so ya gotta rev it past like 6K to really get power out of it (9k redline) so in normal everyday stuff it's quite like a econ box.. except without the good fuel economy.
But being a rotary you have to check and fill the oil as necessary.
I find rotaries interesting and for an n/a rotary the rx8 is nice, when they stick a turbo on it it will be killa.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Well my wife apparently doesn't like Subarus, so that is out. She went from we're not trading it in to looking at 4Runners & Xterras.

Either a 4Runner or an Xterra would be fine with me, I'm good with SUVs.

 

[Frank]

In the different classes, there is a very large difference in the driving style the cars are designed for.

For example, an Evolution is build for sportive driving. It allows a lot, but is not very forgiving in bad situations. A quattro is more "solid" on the road, and has lots of electronic helpers to keep you there in hairy situations. And the Impreza/Legacy is very forgiving, active safety (very good handling) being the main focus.

So, if you want safety first, the Impreza/Legacy is best, the Quattro is good, but the Evo is not.

This is even much more pronounced with SUV's. For starters, they're big, top-heavy, and the 4wd ones are focussed on plowing through any terrain at slow speed much more than active safety on the road.

There is a good difference between 4wd and AWD for a reason, as the first is only meant for slow speed on bad roads, while the latter is meant to keep your car under control in all weather.

So, if you're going for a safe car in bad weather, make sure it has active four wheel drive at all times, not a 4wd you have to enable manually. And high cars are much worse than lower ones. Try taking a tight corner at full speed with your Pathfinder, for example. Which is what active safety is all about: getting you out of hairy situations in one piece.

Then again, if the weather is really bad, a 4wd might be better, as it will discourage fast driving in the first place. But that's not what people do when driving to or from their work in general.


Edit: a heavy car also has a much larger tendency to start sliding. And when it does, you lose all control.

 

[Sxotty]

Sorry I did not see that bit where she doesn't like subarus, ah well. My wife loves it...

Actually you know man, you should really try to get her in a legacy and see what she thinks if she has not tried a suby in a while. It cannot hurt to give it a go, and who knows she may love it or hate it, but at least she will know.


IGNORE...

That is why we got a subaru wrx, so if we move to snow country it will still work well. Subaru has the legacy with the sooped up engine that would be just as sporty as the Z yet much safer, and as a bonus they are made in Lafayette, Indiana (At least I believe they are)

http://www.modernracer.com/subarulegacygt.html

 

[Frank]

Just go look around, and test drive some. You and your wife might be surprised about the comfort and handling on the inside of some cars, even when not really enthousiastic about the looks on the outside. Which of those is more important to you both? And that enthausiasm grows on you.

Try taking an Impreza WRX for a spin, for example. And it will go way beyond what you would dare try during that first drive, if you get to know it. Safely.

Just try to get a feel for the cars on your list, and try some special ones as a benchmark.

 

[Snyder]

No. There are many factors involved. Crossfire is the _old_ SLK. The platform which has been in production for ages, cheap, optimized parts and it has some 50% of the features that SLK had. Meaning, no development costs, very low cost for testing since most of it has been tested to death already, lower costs for logistics etc., etc.

BMW and Mercedes(a bit less so) also have tech which is shared from the 7/S-Class down to 1/C-Class, but the lower you go, the more features are being stripped away and cheaper/less fancy package/materials used.

Blah. Got carried away a bit As for Audi, they don't add much more features or make it much "better", but use the stuff "as is" and add a few shiny covers. In many cases, not always of course. The A3 for example has _nothing_ more or different than Golf except the optics and a more sporty suspension setup, but costs much more. The A8 is another beast, but that's more about brand positioning and such, so I won't go into that.

In the end it's all just about strategy, it's mostly the same engineers working in all these companies at some point anyway and all use the same circle of suppliers.

Ok, I understand your reasoning, I've just never seen it that big of an issue. One thing is true - Audi/VW sometimes seem to produce simply too many different cars for the different existing market segments, trying to cover the market with two brands where often one is enough, which leads to several of them seeming to be redundant to me (as you said especially the A3, I agree with you on that one - using the same platform for different cars is one thing, but failing to differentiate them except for a few details seems stupid to me). Volkswagen management decisions have been a bit chaotic for some time, or so it seems to me.
But that doesn't mean all their cars are crap - and one thing still is a selling point for Audi: if you want the quattro AWD, you won't get that with a VW.

 

[Frank]

But that doesn't mean all their cars are crap - and one thing still is a selling point for Audi: if you want the quattro AWD, you won't get that with a VW.

Actually, you can even get that with a Skoda...

 

[Sage]

too bad 325xi is $33k/ reaaally safe car, BLAST to drive, and quite the degree of creature comfort.

 

[PC-Engine]

WRXs and EVOs gives a really harsh ride on poor roads. I don't know the road quality where you live, but consider ride quality also. The Lexus IS250 AWD may be an option, but it only has 204hp and starts at $30K.

 

[digitalwanderer]

The Lexus IS250 AWD may be an option, but it only has 204hp and starts at $30K.

More like $34k, but it is damned cute and I'd love a Lexus.

I'm sort of turning off to the 4Runner. It's nice, but once I started choosing options I got it over $40k in a hurry!

I like the Subaru still, I really do. The looks appeal to me as well as the features, and I get a real good vibe off it.

I'm gonna find a way to make her take a look at one in person, tomorrow if I can.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Oh, a link to the Legacy 2.5 GT Limited Edition official page just for my own convenience.

I really like it, and it starts at $28.8k pretty well decked out so it would actually be less than our current monthly payment.

EDITED BITS: $29k 06 Legacy nicely decked out in Lynwood I could check out tomorrow...I'm checking some more dealer stock.

Damn it, pre-shopping a car online is SOOOO much easier than bouncing to all the dealerships!

EDITED BITS II: Hmmm, mebbe the Impreza would impress her more... (Yes, I'm late night car shopping.)

 

[ninelven]

Considered a BMW 3 series?

Or Mazdaspeed 6?