Neo Gaming-age forum (neogaf) claims vgchartz is not reliable and way off.
They call that site garbage, so I wouldn't trust anything from there.
You really need to check your sources (Just trying to help)
The problem with VGChartz numbers *spin-off
- Thread starter dkanter
- Start date
Neo Gaming-age forum (neogaf) claims vgchartz is not reliable and way off.
They call that site garbage, so I wouldn't trust anything from there.
You really need to check your sources (Just trying to help)
That's false. The WW software sales have been following roughly the number of consoles sold.
COD is a war game, which sells more to 360 gamers because of demographics. Even then it's 12M for 360 and 10M for PS3. FIFA is enough to offset it. Your dramatic 2:1 goes both ways.
WTF does it matter, since they readjust the yearly numbers when they get the official ones? They are often off in both directions and they correct it. I'm using the readjusted numbers. The number directly from MS and Sony are 6M more in the last 6 years. These are the numbers I'll use now. They support my argument, and are accepted by everyone here. Are they correct according to Negaf, the gaming forum gods? Can we go back to the actual question of retail price?
TheWretched
Regular
To be fair, there's not really another source like them. Worldwide sales aren't tracked by anyone else. And we cannot really trust MS or Sony with sales numbers either. Their "accumulated sales" over the years come close to what Sony and MS say at their quarterly results, though... so I dunno.
And... to be honest, I couldn't care less about what NeoGaf says.
No information is better than bad information.
Depends on the source. PR statements can be carefully worded to allow for misleading numbers to be released, but the quarterly financial statements are pretty much Gospel, with the caveat that you really need the context of the preceding and following quarters numbers to properly evaluate them (like an undershipped quarter leading to an overshipped quarter).
That's the problem. At any given point, no one knows how accurate their numbers are.
In this context you should. Given that NPD are no longer providing comprehensive sales numbers and EU sales numbers have never been comprehensive, NeoGAF sales age would LOVE it if VGChartz could be accepted as a reliable source. The fact that it can't be is as unfortunate for them as anyone. Unfortunately, the only region with comprehensive numbers we can trust is Japan, which sucks.
It matters when you are in the middle of a quarter and they can be off by millions. There's simply no reason to use them. If you are only going to use them when they've corrected from an official source, you should just use the official source.
Millions off. In the middle of a single quarter. Millions.
Did you even read my post? You're not contradicting anything I said, and I can equally use the official sources to support my argument. Which I said I am now doing. You guys are nitpicking about a tiny detail, a single word on an unimportant line of my post (the word "every", which should have been "cumulatively"), which I corrected by using the official numbers. My post was about retail price, business incentives, and an important point about component sourcing. Can we continue the discussion by talking about component sourcing?
I want to try the Redmond liquid, the Rhum I'm drinking right now, while delicious, isn't really working.
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsof...uary-ends-2011-as-no-1-console-worldwide.aspx
Now if you're willing to believe that Microsoft is going to lie about something like that 6 years into a console lifecycle on official SEC documentation (they reported it in their financial report too), then good for you.
Since I have not seen a rally by the PS3 this year, it seems a safe bet the situation has not changed.
Now if you're willing to believe that Microsoft is going to lie about something like that 6 years into a console lifecycle on official SEC documentation (they reported it in their financial report too), then good for you.
Since I have not seen a rally by the PS3 this year, it seems a safe bet the situation has not changed.
It is truly remarkable the way MS claims to be the best selling console two years in a row when the reports of both the 360 and PS3 crossing 70 million within weeks of each other suggest the gap is less now than it has ever been. I guess they can claim whatever they want, but that won't keep the PS3 from overtaking the 360 in worldwide installed base next year.
Doesn't. Matter. It was about equal in 2011 by only 200k, obviously it could have tipped either way. I don't give a flying fuck about these details. WTF does it matter if the 6M advance isn't 7M in Mar-2013 but 6.5M? This is fanboism crap. 6 or 7 million won't turn into zero in a single quarter. PS3 sold more by an AVERAGE of 1M per year. That was my point. I don't care about micro managing minuscule details, trying to prove a tiny error in estimation, while ignoring the elephant in the room.
If they calculate from Jan-Jan versus Mar-Mar the numbers will tip one side to the other in these very close years. It still doesn't matter. It's marketing speak and choosing between sales and shipped. In the end it adds up. Shifting a quarter into another doesn't erase a 6M advantage. There a limit how much clever marketing speak can change numbers.
I'm nitpicking, and you may be right about it, but you didn't quote either microsoft, not their SEC filings. You quoted a microsoft blogger preaching to the choir. It's not even a press release. It's blog. There are no sources cited at the end of the blog. They have no legal standing.
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Toss the Japanese market out the window, which is fine by me, and the sales numbers begin to look a lot more interesting. MS is clearly ahead in the US, and Sony likely ahead in Europe. But the lead Sony has in Europe compares poorly to the lead MS has in the US. And with MS completely bombing in Japan it means the 360 has done better sales wise in the markets that are dominant and not one losing relevance with each passing generation. But worldwide they're about tied and if one discounts Japan, which again is fine by me, than 360 has the edge. But none of this really matters at this point considering the generation is coming to an end and the current gen consoles will enter their twilight years, while still making good money the focus will be on the new generation. But if we must play this game with the current gen then we can say this. MS is the big winner in North America, Sony the big winner in Japan, and an edge to PS3 in Europe. I would call it about even especially considering the Japanese market is tiny now compared to the other two.
From Sony's 4Q '11 Financial Statement:
4Q 2010 FY PS3 Shipments (Jan-Mar 2011) - 2.1M
1Q 2011 - 1.8M
2Q - 3.7M
3Q - 6.5M
Total PS3 shipments for 2011 Calendar Year - 14.1M
3Q 2011 FY 360 Shipments (Jan-Mar 2011) - 2.7M
4Q 2011 (Apr-Jun 2011) - 1.7M
1Q 2012 (Jul-Sep 2011) - 2.3M
2Q 2012 (Oct-Dec 2011) - 8.2M
Total 360 Shipments for Calendar Year 2011 - 14.9M
That good enough?
4Q 2010 FY PS3 Shipments (Jan-Mar 2011) - 2.1M
1Q 2011 - 1.8M
2Q - 3.7M
3Q - 6.5M
Total PS3 shipments for 2011 Calendar Year - 14.1M
3Q 2011 FY 360 Shipments (Jan-Mar 2011) - 2.7M
4Q 2011 (Apr-Jun 2011) - 1.7M
1Q 2012 (Jul-Sep 2011) - 2.3M
2Q 2012 (Oct-Dec 2011) - 8.2M
Total 360 Shipments for Calendar Year 2011 - 14.9M
That good enough?
As you can see above, actually 800K, and your words were "consistently outselling the 360 every year". All I did was post a small correction, I wasn't invalidating your point, which is quite valid. You're the one that took offence.
Unfortunately, Sony has now started listing combined ps2/ps3 shipments, so it's harder to pull out the relevant numbers, but considering they were selling about a million PS2s a quarter (You gotta admit, that is one bloody successful console...) and their most recent quarter combined was lower than the PS3 only numbers from last year, their sales have not been going up. (neither have the 360, but it looks like they're comparable). Yes, they have a 6 million advantage over the last 5 years, but it's decreasing, not increasing.
Their sales are still impressive, and it's a testament to the strength of the playstation brand that they managed to maintain sales as good as they did with a price disadvantage and no clear performance advantage. It has, however eroded their brand somewhat, and they may not be able to pull the rabbit out of a hat a second time.
Dominik D
Regular
FWIW I had the ability to peek into worldwide numbers (NPD+ChartTrack+GFK) on several occasions and numbers 50% smaller than VGC provides or, say, 200% higher than VGC provides were more of a norm rather than exception. And it was back in the days when NPD was publishing some of the data, so VGC could "adjust the algorithm" as they would call stealing numbers from NPD. I find numbers posted by VGC interesting/amusing to read but I never use them in discussions about sales and I dismiss most arguments based on those. But that's me.
And their software numbers are even worse....
Point taken, I agree. I won't use vgchartz anymore, but that doesn't really help finding a good reference. Both companies did announce the 70M milestone weeks from each others, there's also the discrepancies between shipped and sold depending on the source. I guess we'll find out when they post 2012 results
Point taken, I agree. I won't use vgchartz anymore, but that doesn't really help finding a good reference. Both companies did announce the 70M milestone weeks from each others, there's also the discrepancies between shipped and sold depending on the source. I guess we'll find out when they post 2012 results
Possibly not definitively. Sony are now obfuscating their PS3 shipments by combining them with PS2 in their financial reports.
Also, those few weeks were the first full month of the biggest shipment quarter of the year and could easily account for as many as 2 million additional consoles shipped. As shown above Sony shipped 6.5M total consoles over these 3 months last year. Given historical performance it is not only possible, but likely that MS shipped even more 360s over these same "few weeks". I don't think the relatively close timing of hitting the 70M mark means as much as some think.
Well, it will still give a good idea, because PS2 sales certainly won't go up YoY, it's a decline that can be estimated roughly, at least for 2012.Possibly not definitively. Sony are now obfuscating their PS3 shipments by combining them with PS2 in their financial reports.
Also, those few weeks were the first full month of the biggest shipment quarter of the year and could easily account for as many as 2 million additional consoles shipped. As shown above Sony shipped 6.5M total consoles over these 3 months last year. Given historical performance it is not only possible, but likely that MS shipped even more 360s over these same "few weeks". I don't think the relatively close timing of hitting the 70M mark means as much as some think.
If there's 2 million difference in sales between these weeks is matching the 72M-70M numbers that are expected. It also matches the 6M since 2006 I was talking about (if they were equal it would have been at least 8M, i.e. the full first year of 360)
