The One S/X in a generationless future

[sniffy]

Phil Spencer has previously said generations as we know them will no longer exist (at least as far as Xbox is concerned). The Xbox One hypervisor would appear to allow future hardware to play current titles without necessarily having to worry about future hardware design (the transition from Jaguar cores to Zen cores, etc). That's all well and fine, but what do you think Microsoft's plans are for the current consoles?

The One S will serve as the basis of xCloud, and will therefore presumably continue to be sold at retail (?) as a way to lure people into the ecosystem on the cheap. What of the One X? Is it simply too expensive to continue to produce after newer hardware has released? Will the option to play future titles designed for future consoles exist for current hardware, with the caveat it might not play well?

 

[Metal_Spirit]

Here’s a maybe.
There were rumours of a low cost next gen machine with about 4 Tflops, and then Anaconda with more than 10 tflops.
Although a 4 tflops console may seem hard to understand, it could be a good move in this scenario:
Both Xbox One S and X would enter the next gen as Streaming machines, eventually mixing some local power with the stream to improve latencies.
This would mean keeping the current userbase engaged on next gen.
For next gen and current gen game, the One S would stream at 1080p, and X would stream at 4K. Both would run locally current gen titles (games made for them) and even eventually some less demanding future games.
Now we would have the cheaper than the X new next gen console. This would be a console that would fit in the middle of both, capable of playing all S games locally, at Improved resolutions, but this console could not run 4K local old gen games (the X would be required for 4K). The same with less demanding future games. It would also have streaming at 4K, eventually mixed with local processing, improving over the S.
This would be better that the S, but not better that X. A cheap upgrade for those happy with the S results, and just wanting to increase resolutions.
This would men the X would also remain as an option. Its price would decrease, and it would be a 4K streaming and local machine for older gen games.
Then we would have anaconda. The full fledged next gen experience, running all games locally.

Although this is just a product of my imagination, it could be a smart move from Microsoft, specially with their ideology of selling games, regardless of where you play them. It would keep current gen users, it would allow them to enter next gen and have access to all their games, and it would offer upgrades, and solutions at different costs.

 

[Jay]

1X they need to eol as soon as possible once next gen starts, too much of an overlap with Lockhart.
1S can still be sold as a cheap local previous gen console, the same way it's been done in previous gens (apart from Xbox classic). Will also be able to stream xcloud Scarlett games.

My current view is neither current X1's will be able to do hybrid streaming unless they approach it differently than my current understanding of running game locally but at a heavily reduced graphic fidelity. CPU just isn't good enough.

Im hoping xcloud is just initial preview and testing and they move to xcloud Scarlett as soon as possible. Upto year of next gen release before next gen only games really appear. So about 2021.
Otherwise their streaming service will be for BC games, whilst stadia will be running next gen games also. For mobile market that may not be an issue for MS though which is what their currently targeting.

So my answer to your question
1X has a very short life in terms of being produced, but will still play "all" games due to cross gen until around 2021 min.
1S has a longer production run, but will also stop playing "all" games same time as 1X.
They both can stream xcloud scarlett games, but not hybrid streaming they'll be just dumb devices.

Current performance of 1S isn't great and will only get worse, so they actually need to get away from it as soon as possible.
Due to smaller user base I'm assuming most people who have Xbox are Xbox fans, not casual gamers so they are likely to stay with Xbox unless they do something really bad. Be best to get them to upgrade asap and drop this gen hardware. Be seen as a clean start I suppose.

 

[iroboto]

Phil Spencer has previously said generations as we know them will no longer exist (at least as far as Xbox is concerned)

He’s referring to a hard cutoff of games. Basically I think after much discussion here on this forum, he’s referring to the topic that going forward their games and saves will always carry forward to the next generation of hardware.

The games are generationless, the hardware is not though. At best we can expect a longer transition period, but I think the idea is that you can freely buy games today play them and save them and roll into next generation worry free.

 

[law007]

Forward compatibility, this is good news, for Microsoft users,

 

[eastmen]

My guess ?

Diskless S gets a 7nm revision and the console finally gets cut in half price wise and size wise. Hitting the $100 price point . They will do what they did with the one to the S. Slight clock speed bumps to improve performance but nothing that will effect yields or the power draw of the chip. This will be for those who need to replace dead xbox one / s consoles and to stream xcloud at the lowest possible price point on ms hardware.

4Tflop console - Flops are not created equal. We can see by how nvidia and amd cards operate. My guess is either through navi or a next gen gpu MS is able to get X performance out of a 4Tflop machine than a 6 Tflop machine. This will replace the X as it will have a zen cpu and the same generation of amd gpu inside it as the high end console . This will hopefully be able to get them into the sub $300 range , perhaps $250 ? The goal of this console is a midway entry point and get those who want something above their old one and one s to hop on board.

High end console - This will be their new high end most likely coming in at $500 and perhaps even a more expensive one with more storage. This will be a native 4k machine playing everything in 4k . I think it will surpass vega 56/64 performance in the console form factor . This is for those who want to play stuff like Cyberpunk in the best possible quality.

They will continue to drop prices as they can. The Diskless S will drop to $50 at some point and will be key to taking on all the other streaming services. The 4TF console will slowly move down and replace the Diskless S at some point in the future giving them a 4k console in the sub $200 price point. Half way through the generation the High end will get replaced with a faster console ?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

My guess ?

Diskless S gets a 7nm revision and the console finally gets cut in half price wise and size wise. Hitting the $100 price point .

Going to 7nm will knock $150 off the RRP of XBO SADE? Uhh.. you what now.

 

[AlNom]

May not even be worth the R&D given the stagnation in sales.

 

[eastmen]

Going to 7nm will knock $150 off the RRP of XBO SADE? Uhh.. you what now.

I believe the price was set as it was to drive out inventory of the old model and once the disc version is out of stock the price of the disk less ones will drop

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I believe the price was set as it was to drive out inventory of the old model and once the disc version is out of stock the price of the disk less ones will drop

Drive out inventory of the old model? Huh?

 

[eastmen]

Drive out inventory of the old model? Huh?

I believe the pricing of the diskless xbox one s is the way it is to make the older model with the bluray drive more attractive to buyers. Once they buy up the remaining stock of those , the diskless sku will drop in price.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I believe the pricing of the diskless xbox one s is the way it is to make the older model with the bluray drive more attractive to buyers. Once they buy up the remaining stock of those , the diskless sku will drop in price.

And Microsoft will let the model with the optical drive disappear as stock drains?

 

[Jay]

May not even be worth the R&D given the stagnation in sales.View attachment 3035

I think the 1S and more so 1X turned round the perception of XO being horrible consoles.
Even so I think they need to be EOL'd asap.

There is confusion still for many people regarding FC, last week Brad Sans did a vid saying MS needs to come out and explain to people about BC & FC, and that current gen will be able to play next gen games. (pretty sure that's what he said), then I saw other people mirror that.
MS let it carry on instead of clarifying when they knew it was not the case, maybe benefitted them leaving people thinking that?

XO's sales a dieing quickly anyway, MS needs to bury it and go all in next gen. If they could get games out that can't be done on this gen before Sony even better. Although I expect Sony to be first.
Leave 3P to do cross gen and supporting current gen.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What's the value in announcing FC now for MS? People buying hardware now to play next-gen games will just not be buying the new hardware. And you'll get noise about either next-gen games will be gimped on XB because XB1 is holding them back, or XB1 won't be able to play them well enough for it to be worth it. Probably better to just launch next-gen and then release games on whatever platforms they want. If releasing to old platforms is worth it, let that happen.

 

[Jay]

What's the value in announcing FC now for MS? People buying hardware now to play next-gen games will just not be buying the new hardware. And you'll get noise about either next-gen games will be gimped on XB because XB1 is holding them back, or XB1 won't be able to play them well enough for it to be worth it. Probably better to just launch next-gen and then release games on whatever platforms they want. If releasing to old platforms is worth it, let that happen.

It was Brad that was saying they need to tell people you can play next gen games on current gen.

I think they should've just clarified it earlier, now I think they should just say what benefits next gen will give not focus on current at all.
Regarding current gen, I would just say don't worry all your games will play on next gen (possibly better)

I think they should try their best to slow what Scarlett can do and that means not supporting XO, I'm talking forza, and their games releasing in 2021

 

[Jay]

Probably better to just launch next-gen and then release games on whatever platforms they want. If releasing to old platforms is worth it, let that happen.

Although I generally agree with this, I think MS more than Sony needs to transition to next gen as quickly as possible.
The 1S, is really struggling and it's going to get a lot worse.
Not saying no games can be released on XO by MS, but the focus should be Scarlett not the broader XO + Scarlett cross gen games.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You can release games on old gen without it being forwards compatible. Just release a port. Can also use 'Play Anywhere' to buy once, play on different systems. FC means that in five years time after XBN launches, you'll be able to buy a new game and run it on your ageing XB1. I don't see value in that promise. I'd keep focus solely on moving forwards but with BC so your library isn't left behind.

 

[Jay]

What Brad and many others think after MS mentioned FC, that the XO will be able to play all future games.

I personally don't even see the point in spending money back porting, unless it's in the first year of release of next gen.
You can end up with a shadow of a game, and if it's really pushing the CPU, and faster storage which I would like to see, it may be the game in name only. That's the sort of games I'm talking about not ones that can be done on current gen but just scaled down a bit.

MS needs people to buy into next as fast as possible to build momentum.
I'm pretty much taking for granted that Sony doesn't face the same issues

 

[eastmen]

And Microsoft will let the model with the optical drive disappear as stock drains?

Yup , I don't think there will be an xbox one s with an optical drive by the end of the year. I think it will be redundant with xbox one x price drops and then in 2020 with the two new consoles replacing the x they wont need it.