The new PS3 sales pitch: Better gaming, better technology, better value

[blakjedi]

But that will now change in favor of the PS3. Thus the 360 will have to rely on superior content. I don't feel that it will pull this off, so I feel that the PS3 will be more successful than the 360. However, that doesn't mean the 360 won't be successful. It doesn't mean that the Wii won't be more successful than the PS3.

The only thing I care for is that the best system will win, because that's the system I would like to buy most, and from experience I know that it helps if lots of other people bought that same system.

I'm not convinced that the "tilt" has or will happen especially after e3. Games on both systems have been in development at least as long as each other with the caveat that X360 is out and available now shortening several deadlines. Also we haven't seen a game done explicitly for the Xenos. Nearly all games out use xenos as a traditional renderer and we dont know how far that could go if optimised. What has come out to date has been impressive even if not peoples cup of tea (Condemned, PGR3, PDZ, Kameo, GR:AW).

Additionally, it seems that Forza 2 may be the first game to do support the chipset fully because it seems to support all the fixins' which we call "next gen" ....and still no displacment mapping or other memexport usage to be seen...! Every other game (including the game of show - BioShock) is using a UE variant which is known NOT to perform to the full abilities of x360's hardware.... so thats pretty telling.

Superior content is a matter of taste. I'm not an MGS fan and havent been since MGS1. The MGS4 trailers were cinematic interesting (like Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within) but did nothing to improve my expectation or interest in the game. Even if the game looked like that which to my taste was a okay... I wasn't stoked. The game alot of casuals and hardcore alike suggest is in the top ten greatest games of all time (FFVII) doesn't even chart with me. I don't like driving sims like GT for gameplay reasons. So Sony's greatest hits and assets mean nothing to me. New IPs like Heavenly Sword have piqued my interest and true hits like VF 5 will be the reason I buy a PS3.

I am more desirous of playing Too Human, Mass Effect, Jade Empire, Halo and Live Arcade...as they play more into my Western gaming tastes. If MS somehow taps into more people like me they may have consistent on their hands...

 

[TheChefO]

Additionally, it seems that Forza 2 may be the first game to do support the chipset fully because it seems to support all the fixins' which we call "next gen" ....and still no displacment mapping or other memexport usage to be seen...! Every other game (including the game of show - BioShock) is using a UE variant which is known NOT to perform to the full abilities of x360's hardware.... so thats pretty telling.

Off topic - Brings up a good point about system utilization. How many games will be pushing 360/ps3 to their limits this gen? If every game released/announced so far does not utilize the full potential of 360 how many can we expect to do so before~2010? Same for ps3. Hopefully Halo3 will push 360 to the limit but I don't get that feeling from what I've read so far on it. How does mgs4 fair so far in the dept?

on topic - Sony Marketing needs help. Acert, you're hired. "save us! Kuta's gone mad!!!"

 

[Arwin]

It's not truth at all. Actually, only few games utilised HDD to increase performance. I did a little experiment to find out how HDD in Xbox affects gaming and to do so, I put a HDD form 1998 and noticably slower than original Xbox HDD. Only some games had worse performance on the older HDD and PoP The Sands of Time (I don't have sequels of this games) doesn't use HDD even for precaching, because load times didn't change at all.

Not load times, but save times and convenience! Easily overlooked, eh? Memory cards are great for when I attend LAN parties and we need to copy savegames from one console to the other and such, but other than that THEY SUCK!

(Though if Samsung does make that 32Gb MemCard ... )

 

[Serenity Painted Death]

lol - too true Great post Arwin - For the most part I agree. Although I feel strongly that many people both on and off this board are basing the idea that ps3 will rule the roost not based on its PROVEN merits, but instead on what they believe the ps3 is and will be. The sad fact is we as the consumer decide a large portion of that based on which one(s) we buy and when.

The dreamcast was a great machine and died an early death to nothing more than Sony hype/ marketing. When ps2 hit the market it was demonstrably weaker than Dreamcast(under the hood it had more overall power I know), yet people flocked to ps2 and dropped DC like a bad habit. It was a shame to me to see games like dead or alive compared side by side to people only to have them turn around and say "I'm getting a ps2! It's awesome!"

Whichever system we decide as gamers is the system to get will be the one which is made great by great games being developed for it.

...?

Dreamcast was going to fail as it did regardless of anything Sony or anyone else did. Sega was completely broke.

 

[_phil_]

Microsoft felt the origonal HDD in the Xbox was severely underutilized, thats one of the key reasons they even launched a version without one. Other then users of Xbox Live (which is a small market of the overall percentage of owners) it was never really exploited beyond hacks and saved games. Course now thats all changed. Having a standard HDD is the best thing since sliced bread.

If there is a good timing to release a console with a HDD ,it's probably this gen.
X360 hdd was a trade off for 256 megs more memory.

 

[TheChefO]

...?

Dreamcast was going to fail as it did regardless of anything Sony or anyone else did. Sega was completely broke.

Based on lack of sales. If in every EB and game store you went to around the US wasn't telling you not to buy a dc because "ps2! F yeah! gonna save the mf'in day yeah!" then their financial situation might have been a bit different.

 

[TheChefO]

If there is a good timing to release a console with a HDD ,it's probably this gen.
X360 hdd was a trade off for 256 megs more memory.

Well worth it in my opinion - don't you agree?

I like the fact that Ms respected the standard console price entry point, but also had asperations for a greater experience and provided those options to us, the gamers.

 

[Arwin]

I just read an interview with the Assassin's Creed guys (Nicholas Cantin and Alex Drouin). It's in Dutch, so translation mine:

OPM: How's your experience with the storage media of the PS3, the HDD and the BluRay disc? And do you have any comparable experience with HD-DVD technology?

M.M.: Our focus is 100% BluRay, so I cannot compare with HD-DVD. I can only say that the new BluRay discformat is truly awesome. The capacity is immense, and the Data Transfer Rate is way beyond what we are used to. And that's really important, because Data Streaming (OPMED: where the console constantly loads new data from disc) is truly the only way to push next-gen games to the limit. The Playstation 3 HDD is something that we have so far given less attention to, because it hasn't been certain all that long yet that it will be standard on every console. Decreasing load-times by copying a part of the game to the HDD is one possibility, though it doesn't matter all that much for a streaming game like ours. But there are tonnes of other applications, such as the possibility to as it were record your whole game, to be able to watch a replay of it later on. We intend to use the HD optimally, but how, I can't tell yet currently.

Also interesting is this question:

OPM: What do you think about the performance of the graphics chip, the Nvidea RSX?

M.M.: The RSX-chip is also a beast. Not only is it incredibly fast, but just like in the PS2 you can have each Cell-core cooperate with the RSX independently. Other graphics chips also have decent Noraml Mapping- and Shader-capabilities, but RSX adds a lot of additional specialised filters and possibilities, leading to fabulous results in the graphics department. And what is really convenient is that Nvidia has been a market-leader for years, and everyone knows the technology and way of thinking through-and-through. This decreases the learning process considerably.

Interesting points I think is that streaming is, as I expected, again a big factor - all the best games in the last generation employed some serious streaming, and it looks like this gen won't be different. It means you can push a lot more data through the 512mb, and above all, can seriously cut load-times.

Also interesting is his comment on how the cell cores can work together with the RSX independently. We all know it by now of course, but it is interesting to hear it from someone on a development team (even if this guys is an Art Director).

 

[TheChefO]

I just read an interview with the Assissin's Creed guys (Nicholas Cantin and Alex Drouin). It's in Dutch, so translation mine:

OPM: How's your experience with the storage media of the PS3, the HDD and the BluRay disc? And do you have any comparable experience with HD-DVD technology?

M.M.: Our focus is 100% BluRay, so I cannot compare with HD-DVD. I can only say that the new BluRay discformat is truly awesome. The capacity is immense, and the Data Transfer Rate is way beyond what we are used to. And that's really important, because Data Streaming (OPMED: where the console constantly loads new data from disc) is truly the only way to push next-gen games to the limit. The Playstation 3 HDD is something that we have so far given less attention to, because it hasn't been certain all that long yet that it will be standard on every console. Decreasing load-times by copying a part of the game to the HDD is one possibility, though it doesn't matter all that much for a streaming game like ours. But there are tonnes of other applications, such as the possibility to as it were record your whole game, to be able to watch a replay of it later on. We intend to use the HD optimally, but how, I can't tell yet currently.

Also interesting is this question:

OPM: What do you think about the performance of the graphics chip, the Nvidea RSX?

M.M.: The RSX-chip is also a beast. Not only is it incredibly fast, but just like in the PS2 you can have each Cell-core cooperate with the RSX independently. Other graphics chips also have decent Noraml Mapping- and Shader-capabilities, but RSX adds a lot of additional specialised filters and possibilities, leading to fabulous results in the graphics department. And what is really convenient is that Nvidia has been a market-leader for years, and everyone knows the technology and way of thinking through-and-through. This decreases the learning process considerably.

Interesting points I think is that streaming is, as I expected, again a big factor - all the best games in the last generation employed some serious streaming, and it looks like this gen won't be different. It means you can push a lot more data through the 512mb, and above all, can seriously cut load-times.

Also interesting is his comment on how the cell cores can work together with the RSX independently. We all know it by now of course, but it is interesting to hear it from someone on a development team (even if this guys is an Art Director).

interesting - thanks Arwin!

"specialized filters"? Any thoughts on whether he means exclusive to rsx or dx9 parts in general? What could these "special filters" be?

 

[sonyps35]

interesting - thanks Arwin!

"specialized filters"? Any thoughts on whether he means exclusive to rsx or dx9 parts in general? What could these "special filters" be?

I wouldn't put too much stock in PR talk aimed at a very general audience.

We intend to use the HD optimally, but how, I can't tell yet currently.

Maybe they could add a elusive flying section to the game

 

[rabidrabbit]

The comment about data transfer rate on Blu-ray was surprising. From these forums I was under the impression that 2 x Blu-ray only just matches a 12 x DVD transfer rate.

Then again, is a constant 12 x DVD speed useable in real world in a streaming game?
Also as I understand, the constant 2 x Blu-ray transfer rate is better thatn the minimum 12 x DVD transfer rate, and that the maximum DVD rate is seldom achieved.
Is a 12 x DVD speed useable in constantly streaming games, or is there some limitations other than excessive noise (like faster speed being too prone to read errors and such)

Maybe they could add a elusive flying section to the game

Was that a comment on the rumour that flying was omitted from that xbox360 GTA clone because the HDD wasn't standard, or that HDD isn't really needed in large expansive games if there is Blu-ray or HD-DVD. In either case the comment was unnecessarily vague.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The comment about data transfer rate on Blu-ray was surprising. From these forums I was under the impression that 2 x Blu-ray only just matches a 12 x DVD transfer rate.

The comment was specifically 'faster than we are used to' and if they're used to 2/4x DVD, that'd be right. But relative to RAM and next-gen content, I'd have thought they'd be at a disadvantage.

"specialized filters"? Any thoughts on whether he means exclusive to rsx or dx9 parts in general? What could these "special filters" be?

Well he suggests they're something on top of shaders, but I'm sceptical. Could there be custom filtering/post-processing hardware in RSX? If Sony want to win the 'console wars' in the Forum space, if they ensure Anisotropic Filtering on all games they'll win a few friends

 

[Arwin]

The comment about data transfer rate on Blu-ray was surprising. From these forums I was under the impression that 2 x Blu-ray only just matches a 12 x DVD transfer rate.

Then again, is a constant 12 x DVD speed useable in real world in a streaming game?
Also as I understand, the constant 2 x Blu-ray transfer rate is better thatn the minimum 12 x DVD transfer rate, and that the maximum DVD rate is seldom achieved.
Is a 12 x DVD speed useable in constantly streaming games, or is there some limitations other than excessive noise (like faster speed being too prone to read errors and such)

I think that the constant rate of the BluRay does offer an advantage. You have to take the minimum performance of the 360's DVD drive into account or else your game may not perform as well depending on how it is burnt on DVD, which would be a nuisance.

However, there is nothing here saying that he is comparing BluRay with the 360 at all - I rather think he is referring to the last generation.

 

[TheChefO]

Well he suggests they're something on top of shaders, but I'm sceptical. Could there be custom filtering/post-processing hardware in RSX? If Sony want to win the 'console wars' in the Forum space, if they ensure Anisotropic Filtering on all games they'll win a few friends

lol - hey actually - is it possible there is some hardware in rsx to enable fixed aa at a greater efficiency than typical methods? Perhaps 4mb embedded ram to use as a quick cache for tile based rendering? or would this not be considered a "special filter"?

 

[rabidrabbit]

However, there is nothing here saying that he is comparing BluRay with the 360 at all - I rather think he is referring to the last generation.

That likely is true. Though I'd think they should already have some experience with xb360 with it having been on the market for a half year already, and while they might not yet have "got used to" the xb360 as much as they have with last gen, that comment can be read either way.

 

[TheChefO]

That likely is true. Though I'd think they should already have some experience with xb360 with it having been on the market for a half year already, and while they might not yet have "got used to" the xb360 as much as they have with last gen, that comment can be read either way.

Isn't 12xdvd data transfer faster than 2xbr?

 

[rabidrabbit]

The maximum should be, yes.
The minimum, no.
Average? Don't really know, might be a close tie as far as I know from the limited data and knowledge I've collected.

 

[aselto]

Isn't 12xdvd data transfer faster than 2xbr?

It is. 2xBD is like 8xDVD.
Pretty interesting interview anyway. Hopefully AC will be also released on 360 despite its weaknesses.:smile:

 

[TheChefO]

It is. 2xBD is like 8xDVD.
QUOTE]

That's what I thought it was. Thanks.

RRabbit - you brought up interesting points regarding min/max speed dvd v br. Do you have a link?

 

[rabidrabbit]

I found just one by googling on the "Gamespot" site, with a graph and such.