The GBAnext or Sonyboy, what does it need?

[McFly]

I'm actualy into GBA development, so I asked me the question what I would like to see in future handheld specs. Here they are:

- More RAM&VRAM (Always nice to have)
- Bigger res, min: 480x320
- A state of the art display with backlight
- Faster CPU (Yeah, of course)
- True color support, but still with an available palette mode
- Even more Tile & sprite hardware support (No handhelp without please)
- Tiles not only 8x8 but hardware selectable
- Real alpha and color blending hardware support
- A real FPU unit
- No CD or MD, I love the fast loading of the ROMs
- Better multi-voice sound system
- Bluetooth for multiplayer games
- A memory card so ROMs don't need a battery and get cheaper
- A mini analog controler and more buttons A, B, C & D and shoulder buttons, select, start ...

What do you think? I have nothing added for 3D support, should that really be included in the next generation? With a fast FPU unit, this could be left out so not every developer starts to make 3D games. I don't wanna miss 2D games.

Fredi

 

[Grall]

With a 3D accelerator under the hood such as PowerVR MBX, you could code the most powerful sprite engine the world has ever seen. 50-layer parallax scrollers, screen-sized bosses, enemy ships and bullets all over the place thanks to the zero-overdraw deferred rendering system.

One thing does not neccessarily exclude the other. Even with a fast CPU and FPU, 3D graphics would still look like ass in comparison to dedicated hardware which can do advanced texture filtering, FSAA and all sorts of other nifty stuff.

Analog stick, good choice. More buttons. Analog and with click for L & R, just like Gamecube has. Lovely invention that one! As for the rest, more of everything. And proper PCM playback sound hardware. Isn't GBAs sound chip still crappy FM synthesis? Can't believe they didn't adapt the SNES's sound processor, that one ROCKED! 64k memory and it sounded AMAZING!


*G*

 

[McFly]

One thing does not neccessarily exclude the other.

True.

About sound:

-Sound channel 1 produces square waves with variable duty cycle, frequency sweep and envelope functions.

-Sound channel 2 produces square waves with variable duty cycle and envelope functions. Channel 2 is identical to channel 1 but without the frequency sweep function.

-Channel 3 acts as a 4-bit DAC that repeatadely plays a pattern of samples.

-Sound channel 4 produces Pseudo-Noise with an envelope function.

and there is a so called "direct sound" channel for playing samples. Problem is that the rom size is very limited so you better don't use a lot of samples.

I did not touched the sound system till now, so I can only post what I know from the spec docs.

Fredi

 

[Tagrineth]

Can't believe they didn't adapt the SNES's sound processor, that one ROCKED! 64k memory and it sounded AMAZING!

Easy. SONY owns the SPC700 design.

 

[megadrive0088]

I agree with the inclusion of PowerVR MBX or the next generation of mobile PowerVR (whatever that is)

you automatically get practically infinite sprite/bg layer 2d support while getting beyond Dreamcast level 3D.

if they build it, i'll buy it. GBA just cant cut it even though its FINALLY a step beyond GB, Lynx, TurboExpress GameGear, Nomad and GBC.

 

[Ty]

If the resolution of Handhelds is so (relatively) low though, what's the big deal about overdraw?

 

[Mariner]

I don't know how soon we'll see any of the PVR MBX stuff, but I notice that ST has pulled the plug on them (again):

http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20030226S0029

Assuming the technology is solid, it seems that PVR is the ideal tech for a small handheld device but will one of the big companies be willing to back it?

 

[V3]

It need lightweight battery maybe with solar cells.

 

[BoddoZerg]

Yeah, a Solar powered GB would be nice. No need to worry about batteries.

It would be very nice to see a handheld gaming device with analog controls and decent 3d graphics. If they can fit a PVR 3d accelerator into that thing, the Gameboy will be able to move from DOOM level graphics to Quake2. 8 player Team Fortress over wireless link!

On the other hand, I don't quite see what the point would be to make more powerful 2d. You can't get good lighting effects in a 2d game, no matter how many sprite layers you make. Most of the big improvements in the visual quality of 2d games came from resolution and color depth, which are completely impractical for a handheld device. At some point, more sprites will just be adding clutter to the screen. Diablo 2 was bad enough with dozens of monsters and objects overlapping each other and making it hard to click on any of them.

By the way, whatever happened to the BitBoys handheld graphics processor?

 

[Tagrineth]

If the resolution of Handhelds is so (relatively) low though, what's the big deal about overdraw?

Video chip has to be so small and cool that it won't be capable of having a giant fillrate. Therefore we need to conserve what little fillrate is available - overdraw elimination.

 

[MfA]

I wouldnt be surprised if a hardwired design could render an order of magnitudes of triangles more per Watt than a software engine using floating point, or even sliding point for that matter (fixed point + barrel shifter). Software is more flexible, but I think in this kind of environment doing more of the 3D pipeline design in advance and fixing it for an advantage in fillrate/area and more importanly fillrate/Watt is still a worthy trade off ... even if it isnt anymore on the desktop or even for consoles.

Wanting to keep 2D games alive is nice, but a software only system is basically a lame duck in 3D compared to one with a 3D chip.

 

[Panajev2001a]

a PVR MBX chip with the Vector Engine paired to say an ARM9-ARM10 CPU would fly in 3D and have more than enough power to do wonders in 2D...

They need to bring back translucency sorting in HW and most of all Volume Modifiers ( screw DX compatibility )... DOT3 support would be liked yes

 

[Grall]

Isn't translucency sorting in hardware for MBX? That's strange, it has hardware shaders and everything after all (if T&L unit is included) so why not?

Modifier volumes would be nice of course, but would it really be needed for mobile applications? Limited use for very high quality shadows and such, would not shadow maps be fine for that purpose?

*G*

 

[Panajev2001a]

modifier volumes would help with self-shadowing and stencil shadows which are a cool effect

With a bit of effort with generation of the shadow volumes, which can be done thanks to the CPU ( we have a Vector Engine for T&L ), and then you get self-shadowing for free basically...

Automatic translucency sorting was removed after the PVR2DC chip according to Simon F.

 

[Tagrineth]

LOL.. how can hardware translucency sorting be taken out?

It's part of the PowerVR TBDR architecture...

 

[Panajev2001a]

I might have misunderstoond Simon, let me go find the quote before L-O-L-ing mr. I am too into GBA coding ( and you are not the only one )

 

[PC-Engine]

I think it was Infinite Planes that was taken out after PVRDC.

 

[Blade]

I know one thing that GBAnext needs.. (if the next Nintendo home system doesn't have it)

A new Earthbound game!

Eh, it's not a hardware feature.. but damn Nintendo, it's taken too long for a sequel. Release Mother III already!

 

[Panajev2001a]

From Simon F...

(Of course, when Kyro had the translucency sorting removed because no one appeared to be using it, several ex-DC developers said that was a shame. Just shows you can't please everybody )

Tagrineth... 0WN3D

hehe, sorry

 

[Panajev2001a]

There is a Thread about PowerVR vs 3DFX... the CLX chip used in the DC was quite "special"... faster VQ support, larget on-chip tile buffer ( 32x32 ), etc...