The AMD Execution Thread [2007 - 2017]

[3dilettante]

Just about the only customer the Intel fab spinoff would have would be the Intel dev spinoff.

 

[Karoshi]

My prediction of the magic solution for this problem:

the US government, in a bid to keep the flailing American chip company afloat, will split Intel's manufacturing and development houses into separate companies, making the manufacturing arm an open foundry which anyone can use.

This will allow AMD to finally flex some muscle and the x86 CPU market will see the greatest resurgence ever.

Timeframe: 3-5 years

Yeah, like they did against the other even more obvious monopolist, microsoft.
oh, wait.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

Yeah, like they did against the other even more obvious monopolist, microsoft.
oh, wait.

And tell us which other large American corporation MS put out of business to establish said monopoly? IIRC they were all still around, just mostly competing elsewhere or co-existing as a "partner".

 

[Karoshi]

And tell us which other large American corporation MS put out of business to establish said monopoly? IIRC they were all still around, just mostly competing elsewhere or co-existing as a "partner".

Ok ok, i saw this coming as i was sending it..
It was a cheap shot at ms, this are the internets.
Maybe novell, ibm, netscape, citrix and others feel ms abused its position, but only netscape was (sort of) put out of business.
What would have been of netscape if MS hadnt got them? Maybe they´d just be the size of opera, maybe they'd have been bought after y2k.
Anyway, back on topic, i doubt the antitrust against intel is gonna do anything. Maybe a small wrist slap, maybe 2 month*revenues fine, nothing serious.

 

[kyetech]

You asked me about my interests; i am a writer, i am writing my own unrelated book currently; i am an investigative reporter, and my interests are the HW industry, specializing in discreet graphics. i AM very interested in Benchmarking - i found a way to save 90% of the traditional time involved in side-by-side IQ comparisons and was working on an article comparing r600 and g80's IQ over their evolving drivers over the past 12 months. Well, now i am not doing the article [mostly Crysis and BioShock] but DW of AT now knows basically how i do the time saving benchmarking; so watch for it there under another author; not mine. i am here at B3D simply because you guys have the best Benchmarking articles and good insights into the industry. And i simply want to learn; i am not ready to be a HW editor; i am pretty sure of that. But the active threads on benchmarking here at B3D forum do not currently interest me or apply to what i am doing, so i am hanging out in only two B3D "speculation" threads - formerly my own specialty at ATF video.

However, i am still confident in my PoV as i did expect that AMD would initially use TSMC as a foundry; the real question is though, will they continue to use TSMC for the long haul if SMIC can provide a cheaper alternative?

Great post, you stated your POV well there, thanks for taking the time out to tell us your background, I certainly dont think your trying to brag.

I do think the way you have come accross before has made it hard on yourself, and I can see that its not on purpose, its more style over substance. i dunno.

Anyway, I wont make any more noise in this thread.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Just as a general commentary, I don't think we need to call individual posters out on style or need to compare any given site to any other.
We can debate the message and the ideas.

I don't see a need to heat things up with debate of anything outside of the main topics.

And as a colour commentator I'd just like to ask you to please just have a nice, steaming hot cup of "shut-the-heck-up!"* and let these crossboard dramas play out as they will!

*Yes, I know I'm quite in the minority on this viewpoint.

 

[Arun]

You guys are missing the obvious - whether Microsoft or Intel get into trouble is highly related to the political context. What do you think would happen if democrats increased their lead in the senate & the house, Obama won the presidential race, and he appointed John Edwards as Attorney General? Clearly his top priority wouldn't be technology companies, but that'd still change the definition of monopolistic behaviour quite a bit...

 

[Karoshi]

You guys are missing the obvious - whether Microsoft or Intel get into trouble is highly related to the political context. What do you think would happen if democrats increased their lead in the senate & the house, Obama won the presidential race, and he appointed John Edwards as Attorney General? Clearly his top priority wouldn't be technology companies, but that'd still change the definition of monopolistic behaviour quite a bit...

Clearly this cant be right. We live in law based democracies, with clear separation of powers and universal laws that are the same no matter who's in power and are applied to all equally, no matter if corporations/individuals or their wealth.
Oh, wait...

 

[Razor1]

There is always a need for regulated monopolies in this country and in the world. Unless MS or Intel go out of their way to stifle competition that would be the only way government will get involved, this isn't like Gram Bell, technology is so much more complex now monopolies are sometimes a must, because consumers, businesses, government, require stability, and when you have competition stability might not be there because of different standards being used, thats why regulators aren't as aggressive with these companies (unless they cross the line of hurting another company)

 

[apoppin]

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/14802

TSMC plans to raise prices
by Cyril Kowaliski — 3:13 PM on May 27, 2008

AMD and Nvidia may soon have to pay a little more to get their graphics processors made. As eWeek reports, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) plans to raise prices for chips based on its most advanced process technologies. The site quotes TSMC Vice President Jason Chen as saying the company faces pressure from factors like falling average selling prices, high oil prices, and high inflation. (Core inflation in Taiwan reached 3.1% last month, its highest in nine years.)

Those familiar with the industry will know TSMC as the world's biggest contract semiconductor manufacturer. TSMC currently produces 65nm graphics processors for Nvidia and 55nm GPUs for AMD, and it recently completed work on a 40nm process. Because of its imposing presence in the semiconductor market, eWeek hints that TSMC can afford to raise prices—after all, the firm has "more than three times" as many sales as its closest competitor, United Microelectronics Corp.

TSMC hasn't publicly laid out exactly how it will change its pricing model. However, considering Chen said the hike will mostly impact "chips made by advanced process technology," the latest high-end graphics products from AMD and Nvidia could be affected.

i'd be looking for a cheaper foundry

 

[AlphaWolf]

i'd be looking for a cheaper foundry

You think the other foundries are going to be lowering prices in the wake of rising costs?

 

[apoppin]

You think the other foundries are going to be lowering prices in the wake of rising costs?

Remember, i am a SMIC fanboy =P

China will undercut their Taiwanese competition; they have their government backing them. They do it in other industries. And i am SO sorry, i did say i would not post here again. I forgot and it was news, so it was automatic.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

WTF does rising oil prices have to do with semiconductor manufacturing? All I can think of is transportation of raw materials and shipment of final product to the customer. Surely this can't be a significant portion of the overall cost to produce...

Are their power plants running on diesel? wtf...

 

[Arun]

Indeed, I have no idea why that'd have a significant impact. Might force you to increase salaries or increase your electricity costs slightly, but that's not even a short-term thing and I doubt it'd be substantial.

On the other hand, the declining dollar does matter because many of TSMC's costs are in TWD, yet they often get paid in USD... I'm not sure what, if any, hedging mechanism they use for currencies but those are limited in time anyway, so eventually they'd definitely feel the impact no matter what.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

Yep, gotta be inflation. I think they just listed everything they could come up with to try and drown out the INFLATION in the noise

 

[apoppin]

Yep, gotta be inflation. I think they just listed everything they could come up with to try and drown out the INFLATION in the noise

OK, damn it i lied!

you left one important thing out, IMO

They are being "sneaky" and using the "excuses" of everything BUT how much is due to the SOI process being introduced to the fabs with all the machinery changes that it will entail.

*cough*

the real reason imo
i am trying to stay away .. you are doing this to me on purpose!

 

[Razor1]

Indeed, I have no idea why that'd have a significant impact. Might force you to increase salaries or increase your electricity costs slightly, but that's not even a short-term thing and I doubt it'd be substantial.

On the other hand, the declining dollar does matter because many of TSMC's costs are in TWD, yet they often get paid in USD... I'm not sure what, if any, hedging mechanism they use for currencies but those are limited in time anyway, so eventually they'd definitely feel the impact no matter what.

well here is the thing oil prices are pined on the dollar, but as the $ goes down oil prices might go up to compensate or might change base to the euro or what ever seems better there has been talks about this from my understanding. Anyways, oil is used in many of the products in making silicon if I'm not mistaken.

 

[jimmyjames123]

Indeed, I have no idea why that'd have a significant impact. Might force you to increase salaries or increase your electricity costs slightly, but that's not even a short-term thing and I doubt it'd be substantial.

On the other hand, the declining dollar does matter because many of TSMC's costs are in TWD, yet they often get paid in USD... I'm not sure what, if any, hedging mechanism they use for currencies but those are limited in time anyway, so eventually they'd definitely feel the impact no matter what.

The cost of goods coming from China/Taiwan are going up across the board, for all industries. China/Taiwan are facing rising materials costs and rising labor costs. Unfortunately there is no way for AMD and NVIDIA to avoid it.

 

[Sxotty]

WTF does rising oil prices have to do with semiconductor manufacturing? All I can think of is transportation of raw materials and shipment of final product to the customer. Surely this can't be a significant portion of the overall cost to produce...

Are their power plants running on diesel? wtf...

Energy prices are going up, not just petroleum.

 

[poopypoo]

seriously, though... an SMIC fanboy!? Are your friends/family employed there, or are you just crazy nationalist?

OK, damn it i lied!

exactly. Save yourself the trouble - admit what you know and omit what you don't. The implication that SMIC can be competitive with TSMC at this stage is ludicrous - the technology simply isn't there yet. Why not speculate, instead, upon which lowend chips, if anyh could be designed in the future with SMIC? In the meantime, please also confess - you're just a forum regular who is hopelessly addicted to internet speculation, and around here, there's nothing wrong with that (if you admit it)!

They are being "sneaky" and using the "excuses" of everything BUT how much is due to the SOI process being introduced to the fabs with all the machinery changes that it will entail.

this may be just your opinion, but it seems pretty slanted. If implementation of new machinery was raising costs, i can't see why they wouldn't admit that. It seems a lot less alarming than "sorry, but labor and energy costs in taiwan are soaring"...