Thanks a lot people

[Althornin]

I think that what your describing is in fact preferable, but that isnt whats happening here, Kyle is repeatedly being called names, and Russ is pointing out that it reflects badly on this website, regardless of whether or not Kyle deserves it, or people think he has it coming.

shit, its not just Russ speaking out against it.
Look, can we all simply agree that calling names is not what we want the board to be about?
Ok, people were upset, so they did something inappropriate.
So, what are we supposed to do now, lick his boots to have him come back?
As i said before, ALL HE HAS TO DO is post a good logical reasoned response as to his actions. If he can explain them, then most of us would understand, and the contempt would cease.
Right now, as i see it, each further day he doesnt post here is his fault - not mine, not the forums fault. The insults have ceased. People ARE explaining the issues they have with Kyle - all he has to do is answer them.

 

[RussSchultz]

Bullshit!

If you or anyone else doesn't hold a viewpoint you are saying that you end up acting like a fucking child?
Maybe you don't give a shit if you come across as an immature brat but others try not to look like that.
You don't speak for the community either.

Good riddance to you.

Who're you talking to?

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

The person I quoted who said that the mob rule the forums and decide what speach is acceptable to them.

 

[RussSchultz]

I don't think anybody said that. Particularly the person you quoted. I'm positive that person is not advocating mob rules.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Then I apologise and take back the angry comment.

MY excuse: Just woke up.

I don't think anybody said that. Particularly the person you quoted. I'm positive that person is not advocating mob rules.

 

[WaltC]

Actually, the crux of my argument is that "free speech" is definately curtailed here by the mob mentality. If you so happen to disagree with a certain set of people or hold a certain viewpoint, you are hounded and harassed until you either leave or stop talking.

I'm not saying anything about the moderation. There's no problem with that.

Russ, I thought we agreed to disagree?.... I know you want to overlook people saying in these forums that we're all a bunch of "character assassins" and "assholes", but surely you can't overlook the fact that "the mob" is powerless to stop a person from exercising such "free speech", and indeed the post with the expletives-not-deleted is proof enough of that, isn't it?

The fact is that in the B3d forums someone can express that opinion, as inaccurate and tasteless as it may be, and "the mob" can do nothing to stop him. So, I think theorizing why various people "might not post" when they have the freedom to post is just a waste of time....Blackwind has had no problem posting. What's the fact that his is a distinctively minority opinion on this issue got to do with that? We all have minority opinions from time to time--has nothing to do with whether a person has freedom to post his opinion in the first place, does it?

Blackwind is a member of the B3d forum is he not? So I mean you can't even make a case that "everybody here" is "ganging up" on somebody, if that somebody is as much a part of the forum here as anybody else. He's been allowed the complete freedom to post whatever he likes. The only thing obstinate and irritating in Blackwind's stated opinions on the matter is that he seems to prefer censorship and agree with it even in an atmosphere where there is none. It's more of the "intellectual pie in the face" kind of thing that is both annoying and comical at the same time that I mentioned in my last post to you on the subject. I have seen a few threads in various forums in the past where a poster has truly been heckled to the point of no return. I've not seen anything even close to that in any of these discussions in the B3d forums.

 

[demalion]

micron,
Please look at my earlier reply to Russ closely. Note the discussion of "specifics" and "general", and how that might apply to your comments.

This is mentioned in the post you replied to:

If you want to criticize people for "attacking" a viewpoint without giving addressable support to their "attack", please make the distinction clear, as I said before...I think you are failing to do so.

If you want to criticize people for continuing to "attack" a viewpoint that someone continues to propose, even when the person being "attacked" is not providing addressable support, I'll disagree. If this were to be your intent, would stating my disagreement, or pointing to where I'd provided support for it, be "hounding"? If so, why are you "free" to repeat such an assertion without addressing that support, and I'm not free to ask for such clarification again when you do so?

Note the first point...I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying make a distinction in your address so that you aren't generally dismissing an opposing viewpoint out of hand.

In short, picking someone displaying "mob mentality", and accusing them of it with support seems like it could be useful. Saying there is a "mob" displaying "mob mentality" by doing something you disagree with does not seem useful at all.

An example:

Demalion, can you honestly say that the actions of forum members here cannot be viewed as such?

Dismissing the entire forum (that's how it reads, see below if that's not what you meant) for criticizing Kyle seems to be a rather ridiculous construction of argument. Anyone can label a group of people and propose there is something wrong with their viewpoint...why can't someone just say something about "people who say the forum acts like a mob" and how they shouldn't act like they are? That was what I meant by reasoning and support.

However, maybe you slipped and meant "some forum members". In which case, I'll repeat my comment that without saying who in particular, it tends to look like the prior action in any case.

The first post is my reply, point by point, to a list of what Russ specified, and how I disagreed with some of it, agreed with some of it when applied specifically instead of as a general description to "a group of people" or "mob", and just plain agreed with some other parts of it, but felt it was obscured by intermingling with the other issues.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

The fact remains I'm making a petition to get Kyle back.
Come on guys, sign it.

 

[Bolloxoid]

What's a Seig?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

The fact remains I'm making a petition to get Kyle back.
Come on guys, sign it.

Kyle will come back if he wants to. At least he still has that option, which isn't a curtesy he has extended to the B3D staff/members. What's an emotionally loaded poll question going to do to change that? Or is this supposed to be some kind of promise that we won't be mean to poor persecuted Kyle?

Fact is he won't come back because that would give him too many hard questions to answer.

 

[Nite_Hawk]

K.I.L.E.R:

Out of curiousity, why do you want him to come back? Quite honestly your reasons for forming such a petition probably would influence if I would sign such a thing or not.

If Kyle does not want to post here, then I don't know that any of us should try to make him. If he wants to come back of his own free accord, that's his thing. Still, he will need to realize that unless Dave or Reverend decide to change things, it will be in the same environment and with the same people as before. Personally, I *would* like to see Kyle come back, but I'd also like to see him appologize to Reverend and B3D, and also answer some of the questions we've been asking him. I'd also like to see some of the people insulting HardOCP and Kyle appologize too.

Nite_Hawk

 

[John Reynolds]

As for the petition, was Kyle "chased" out of the forums? He says he contacted the moderators and got no satisfaction from them, yet curiously enough I was never contacted so I assume he aired his complaints with Dave and/or Anthony. Kyle has made some negative assumptions concerning B3D and the site's motivations, and unfortunately I think a part of this stemmed from the fact that we tend to not engage in heavy-handed board moderation. So Kyle might've assumed that by allowing certain posters to flame and/or heavily criticize him, B3D was by proxy endorsing such opinions themselves. This I think might've commenced Kyle's feelings of ill will toward B3D and I'm sure some of the criticisms from Dave and myself (don't recall anything from Rev) haven't helped. But if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. When you make something public, whether it's an article, opinion, or what have you, expect the public to share its thoughts with you, and they will not always be positive.

The above said, I do feel that some of our regular posters have been rather childish and unprofessional in their comments. If I didn't know better, I'd suspect Kyle had done some of you personal injury or harm. And while I think Kyle himself has acted very poorly toward B3D staff members, I really can't blame him for not posting on this board these days.

Regardless, and insofar as I'm aware, Kyle is perfectly welcome to post in these forums at anytime he so chooses. And if he does so, I'll warn right here that I will be far quicker to edit and/or delete posts from anyone that cross the line from fair criticism to personal attacks. This isn't to protect or shelter Kyle either, so please spare me the PMs.

Thread closed.