Thanks a lot people
- Thread starter K.I.L.E.R
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Kyle or no Kyle-you guys here have a lot more knowledge than the average joe when it comes to 3D.
And I've always respected what Dave B., Reverend and the rest of you had to say over the years even though I only understood a lot of it in "general" terms.
I lurk here to hopefully learn something-and lately it seems that guys with little or no 3D knowledge but who have an agenda are using B3D to bolster thier campaigns against NV and anyone who considers them a viable alternative for whatever the reason.
I read this forum along with 4 or 5 others everyday and everywhere I go it's the same old crap with B3D quoted more often than not as "proof".
When I protest I'm labeled as an "NV whore", a "Kyle supporter" etc.
I could care less about any company or individual that I don't even know-all I want is to learn as much as I can about my "hobby" and then make my own decision on what's right for me.
This board was where I could get the "pure" technical side of an issue sans the emotion and most here will use accurate tech knowledge to make thier point both "for and against" but lately that's changed and people get caught up in the personal attacks.
Maybe the "powers that be" could disavow themselves from the FUD and encourage people to just stick with the facts?
Mike G
And I've always respected what Dave B., Reverend and the rest of you had to say over the years even though I only understood a lot of it in "general" terms.
I lurk here to hopefully learn something-and lately it seems that guys with little or no 3D knowledge but who have an agenda are using B3D to bolster thier campaigns against NV and anyone who considers them a viable alternative for whatever the reason.
I read this forum along with 4 or 5 others everyday and everywhere I go it's the same old crap with B3D quoted more often than not as "proof".
When I protest I'm labeled as an "NV whore", a "Kyle supporter" etc.
I could care less about any company or individual that I don't even know-all I want is to learn as much as I can about my "hobby" and then make my own decision on what's right for me.
This board was where I could get the "pure" technical side of an issue sans the emotion and most here will use accurate tech knowledge to make thier point both "for and against" but lately that's changed and people get caught up in the personal attacks.
Maybe the "powers that be" could disavow themselves from the FUD and encourage people to just stick with the facts?
Mike G
To be fair to those in charge of managing the site and policing the forums: They have no control over what people will do with comments made on these forums (quoting them elsewhere as "fact", for example) and they can't really censor people's views - Doing so would go against the, at least semi, free-speech policy in action here. Whilst blatant and out-of-line "personal attacks" would probably be edited out, for the most part the discussion stays in tact...
...no matter how that discussion turns out - Technical or emotional.
...no matter how that discussion turns out - Technical or emotional.
What I'm saying is that we shouldn't drive ANYONE out of the forums.
I have spoken to Kyle and it is the flaming he doesn't like.
I have personally criticised parts of his work through e-mail and he never once flamed me for it.
I'm just saying that criticism is okay by Kyle but flaming isn't.
I have spoken to Kyle and it is the flaming he doesn't like.
I have personally criticised parts of his work through e-mail and he never once flamed me for it.
I'm just saying that criticism is okay by Kyle but flaming isn't.
Define "flaming". Show us a "flame".
Forbidden Donut
Newcomer
I'm fairly new to the boards here, but I can say for certain that if I received the same treatment that Kyle did, I would be gone very, VERY quickly. The user base for this forum is extremely knowledgeable, but it's kind of dissapointing to see the treatment of people like Kyle. I'm actually reasonably impressed (but pleased) that Brent still hangs around here.
Kyle is stubborn. He has a certain way that he wants to go about doing things, and people here at B3D, as good as their intentions may be, probably aren't going to change that. It would still be nice from my point of view to see a little less animosity between the two sites though. I agree with K.I.L.L.E.R on this one.
Kyle is stubborn. He has a certain way that he wants to go about doing things, and people here at B3D, as good as their intentions may be, probably aren't going to change that. It would still be nice from my point of view to see a little less animosity between the two sites though. I agree with K.I.L.L.E.R on this one.
I MISSED KYLE?!?!?!
Oh man, I have GOT to quit this "sleep" thing....where are the threads?
Oh man, I have GOT to quit this "sleep" thing....where are the threads?
Kyle?
Poor poor thin skinned Kyle.
Big bad B3D was just too rough for him. Please. Read his responses. The only reason kyle isn't here is his opinion cannot be propogated. He can't delete posts and opinions he doesn't like. He can't delete entire threads that he doesn't want to answer.
Brent so far when confronted with information has said "wow, I'll look into it." Kyle says ...............................................
Kyle doesn't want to know.
I guess he felt the same way when he started slinging "agenda" accustions all around to any site that challenged nvidia or [H]. He didn't seem too worried about flames then.
Poor poor thin skinned Kyle.
Big bad B3D was just too rough for him. Please. Read his responses. The only reason kyle isn't here is his opinion cannot be propogated. He can't delete posts and opinions he doesn't like. He can't delete entire threads that he doesn't want to answer.
Brent so far when confronted with information has said "wow, I'll look into it." Kyle says ...............................................
Kyle doesn't want to know.
I guess he felt the same way when he started slinging "agenda" accustions all around to any site that challenged nvidia or [H]. He didn't seem too worried about flames then.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
Blackwind said:
Blackwind,
F*ck you! If your head wasn't so far up nVidia's ass, you might have some relevance on this board!
(Above is an example of a flame!)
(Don't take personally!)Blackwind,
I don't see how your views are consistent. In situation X you said this, and in situation Y you said this. Unless you can explain yourself, I don't see any real reason why you would do this unless you had some bias for nVidia, perhaps getting special favors from them...for example, A, B, C which are all documented.
(The above is an example of a reasoned disagreement.)
And what about the grey area inbetween? Because thats what I see a lot of.
But, sorry, time is the one thing I don't have. I cannot spend time running aounr moderating the forums all the time - as people know, I have a full time job a "normal" life and this site; the site is gaining in popularity and recognition to the point that it is seriously impinging on the other elements of my life and I wouldn't have any time for the site if the forums were being moderated to the n'th degree.
But, sorry, time is the one thing I don't have. I cannot spend time running aounr moderating the forums all the time - as people know, I have a full time job a "normal" life and this site; the site is gaining in popularity and recognition to the point that it is seriously impinging on the other elements of my life and I wouldn't have any time for the site if the forums were being moderated to the n'th degree.
Forbidden Donut said:
Question: would you do the things that inspired that treatment?
I have yet to see a concern with Kyle's comments and actions mentioned at the same time that concern is expressed about his treatment by others in reaction to the same. Accusing a web site of writing an article as retaliation for not receiving a Doom 3 preview seems atleast as serious and insulting as any accusation I've seen directed at Kyle, and I've atleast seen some support for the accusations levelled at Kyle.
You need to clarify the word "treatment". If you mean just the pure name calling and taunting that some do, without any regard to discussing facts, say so. However, the word "treatment" implies inclusion of all the commentary, regardless of its basis, including criticism which happens to be extensively correlated to specific actions and statements that Kyle has in fact performed. Complaining about that seems rather nonsensical, unless you propose that these forums distance themselves from fact, reasoning, and discussion based on establishing such?
Well, being willing to form a coherent response to criticism is what tends to "impress" me...that includes showing you disagree with some criticism that you can support with other than "I say it is so", or admitting a mistake and learning from it (which is something I consider in my opinion of Brent, as he has done this).
Hanging around in the face of criticism just "fails to disappoint" me, so I disagree with the idea of choosing that to praise.
Are my standards too high? Why? I don't define my standards by the behavior of personnel at [H], and other people have and continue to meet them...why should I lower them for these specific cases? The "hit count" hieararchy of web sites?
"Stubborn" is not a virtue by itself. You can be "stubbornly wrong" just as well as you can be "stubbornly dedicated to being objective" or "stubbornly dedicated to serious consideration of all criticism". Kyle seems to think one version of being "stubborn" is just as good as any other...since he isn't here to defend that stance, could you explain why you share that view, since you seem to?
So, I should lower my standards because I "won't change Kyle"? That sounds like something he's said, strangely enough. Perhaps when people responded negatively to that, it was some indication that people didn't agree with this idea, and has some relevance to why people might not share your outlook (even without being part of some sort of "anti-[H]" club by nature).
How about other people not changing? Let's say your saying what you did in response to people's comments about Kyle won't "change that" either. How is it everyone with a differing outlook on the concept has to change to suite Kyle and, apparently, yourself? Why can't you and Kyle change instead?
Forgive me if you don't really condone this outlook on "stubborn", but I think your words are a pretty direct argument along the lines I am addressing. If you don't think they are, please clarify.
What animosity between the "two sites"? This isn't a turf war between gangs!
[H] is run by personnel.
I, personally, have a problem with the actions of specific members of that personnel. So do many other individuals.
Those other individuals posting at Beyond 3D probably happen to like Beyond3D.
This situation is a result of the thoughts of the individuals, and their evaluation of the actions of the personnel behind the sites. This doesn't make their reactions a display of animosity between two sites, and trying to say it does just seems to sidestep that many individuals independently came to their own evaluations based on what the sites actually did, and try to instead substitute the idea that the site to favor was picked, and that the criticism of one and not the other is the result of that alone instead of something objective.
The only animosity "between sites" that I have seen is in the rather rude commentary Kyle has directed at the personnel who run this site, and that has occurred without any relation to factuality or objectivity. I have not seen that in the other direction. If you seek to address such animosity, I recommend you take it up with him. I also recommend that you try to make sure you do not label something rude based on the chosen response of the person at whom it is directed, but by its content.
Like already mentioned, Kyle is not posting here because of his complete inability to tolerate differing opinions.
Kyle, the person who has built his image as a man "who is not afraid to voice his opinion", the man who sends rains of abusive, insulting mails on people he does not like, the man who deletes posts, entire threads of discussions on subjects he deems uncomfortable, the man who bans not only individual users but entire IP blocks in order to keep certain issues hidden, this man now goes into crybaby mode and complains how unfairly he has been treated. He really can't have it both ways, something he cannot understand.
Kiler, if you cannot see a pattern here or draw the necessary conclusions about Kyle's way of thinking and his mode of operation then it is a pity. But please do not try to put a weight of guilt on this forum's members' shoulders (and especially on the administrators' shoulders) because this is really all about Kyle's own conduct. He has not been subjected to anything untoward here and this forum, anyway, is one of the most civilised there are so selectively picking individual flames or comments aimed at him is a misrepresentation.
Kiler, Kyle can be nice and convincing when he wants to but I have seen enough examples of his behavior to draw my own conclusions.
Kyle, the person who has built his image as a man "who is not afraid to voice his opinion", the man who sends rains of abusive, insulting mails on people he does not like, the man who deletes posts, entire threads of discussions on subjects he deems uncomfortable, the man who bans not only individual users but entire IP blocks in order to keep certain issues hidden, this man now goes into crybaby mode and complains how unfairly he has been treated. He really can't have it both ways, something he cannot understand.
Kiler, if you cannot see a pattern here or draw the necessary conclusions about Kyle's way of thinking and his mode of operation then it is a pity. But please do not try to put a weight of guilt on this forum's members' shoulders (and especially on the administrators' shoulders) because this is really all about Kyle's own conduct. He has not been subjected to anything untoward here and this forum, anyway, is one of the most civilised there are so selectively picking individual flames or comments aimed at him is a misrepresentation.
Kiler, Kyle can be nice and convincing when he wants to but I have seen enough examples of his behavior to draw my own conclusions.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
Kyle gets the level of respect that he has engendered by his attitude, his editorials, and his opinions. People respond to Kyle in a particular way because of Kyle's actions and words. If he can't take or understand that, then he shouldn't be in any kind of public forum.
But so what, it's only Kyle Bennet. It's not like he has in-depth technical knowledge to impart to us, it's not like he is privvy to the inner workings of graphics cards companies. Even his website is becoming irrelevent as people stop visiting, as editorial bias makes his objectivity non-existent, and as lack of technical knowledge makes the reviews unreliable.
Him refusing to come here and back up his words with reasoned argument means exactly zero.
Or am I misreading this, and you are actually thanking us for driving Kyle away from B3D?
But so what, it's only Kyle Bennet. It's not like he has in-depth technical knowledge to impart to us, it's not like he is privvy to the inner workings of graphics cards companies. Even his website is becoming irrelevent as people stop visiting, as editorial bias makes his objectivity non-existent, and as lack of technical knowledge makes the reviews unreliable.
Him refusing to come here and back up his words with reasoned argument means exactly zero.
K.I.L.E.R said:Kyle isn't coming back because we were all being assholes.
Or am I misreading this, and you are actually thanking us for driving Kyle away from B3D?
I've been asked not to insult or name call on this board, and I respect that...so I interviewed meself about it.
The reason Kyle won't post here is because he CAN'T post here, he can not answer the questions asked of him here because his logic is faulty and his justifications do not hold up under scrutiny/questioning...simple as that.
The reason Kyle won't post here is because he CAN'T post here, he can not answer the questions asked of him here because his logic is faulty and his justifications do not hold up under scrutiny/questioning...simple as that.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
Right.
The fact of the matter is, B3D members and staff are BANNED at [H], and at the same time Kyle is NOT banned here.
That should be a major clue for some people as to where the "problem" lies.
demalion said:
I think the "treatment" I see as being the equivalent of running people out of town includes:
-never letting something die(dredging up old arguments over and over)
-ganging up on people (with a lot of 'me too' + a page of condemnation)
-interlacing facts and reasoning with intensely charged words
-consistantly poor manners and hostile speaking tone
-ascribing motivations to statements or actions, usually with character assasination in mind
-never apparently looking to engage in conversation, but in beration
Having the virtue of being correct does not prevent or excuse people from being assholes. It just makes them righteous assholes, and they're usually less fun that assholes who don't know what they're talking about.
But that's the internet for you. I suppose Kyle's a big boy and is familiar with how things work, but it doesn't help the image put forth by Beyond3d.
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