Terrible news for Nvidia

[FUDie]

And currently, well, nVidia isn't that well-positioned in the low-end PC graphics market. But the NV4x architecture is a great architecture, and when it does move to the low-end, it should really sell like mad.

Great architecture? From whose viewpoint? It may be great to use it, but manufacture? Look at the problems NVIDIA is having building these chips and getting yields. Plus, you've only seen the NV40 and you're convinced the NV4x archtecture is "great"? Also, the low-end is largely driven by price (see NVIDIA's complaints about pricing pressure in the low-end). From what I have seen of the NV40, it doesn't seem like the NV4x is a suitable architecture for the low-end since it's so big. Process + size = cost.

-FUDie

 

[KimB]

The low-end parts won't be 16-pipeline beasts.

 

[jvd]

The low-end parts won't be 16-pipeline beasts.

what are u thinking ?

I'm thinking the 100$ range will finaly get some 8x1 parts .

Most likely the nv3x parts and r3x0 parts for now . I don't think we will see 8x1 6800s till refresh

 

[KimB]

Um, okay. The 6600's are coming out pretty soon, though they'll be closer to $200. We're not going to see $100 8-pipeline parts just yet.

 

[jvd]

Um, okay. The 6600's are coming out pretty soon, though they'll be closer to $200. We're not going to see $100 8-pipeline parts just yet.

? 9800pro will be at that price point soon . 5900s should be too. Once they hit 110nm . Most likely with the refresh.

That will be good times .

 

[Bjorn]

? 9800pro will be at that price point soon . 5900s should be too. Once they hit 110nm . Most likely with the refresh.

That will be good times .

I would guess that the 9800 Pro and 5900's will be history before they reach <= 100$. Mostly because i'm guessing that the NV43 and RV410 will be cheaper to manufacture.

 

[Sandwich]

? 9800pro will be at that price point soon . 5900s should be too. Once they hit 110nm . Most likely with the refresh.

That will be good times .

I would guess that the 9800 Pro and 5900's will be history before they reach <= 100$. Mostly because i'm guessing that the NV43 and RV410 will be cheaper to manufacture.

Why? R300 and FX production lines are have been running smoothly for quite some time now while the X800s and 6800s are still problematic where production can't meet demand. That and smaller cores seems to me good reason to maintain production of the older gpus.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Larger transistors = bigger die size = less die per wafer = greater cost. Once yields stabilise the reverse is true for smaller processes.

 

[Bjorn]

Why? R300 and FX production lines are have been running smoothly for quite some time now while the X800s and 6800s are still problematic where production can't meet demand. That and smaller cores seems to me good reason to maintain production of the older gpus.

I don't know the transistor count of a 8 pipe NV40 but i'm not so sure that it will be bigger then a NV30. Same goes for RV410 vs R300. And then they're both on a smaller process also.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

? 9800pro will be at that price point soon . 5900s should be too. Once they hit 110nm . Most likely with the refresh.

That will be good times .

I would guess that the 9800 Pro and 5900's will be history before they reach <= 100$. Mostly because i'm guessing that the NV43 and RV410 will be cheaper to manufacture.

Yup.

Basically (gross generalization), the NV43 and RV410 is just a "cheaper" version of the R300 and NV30. They're designed to bring 8 pipeline parts to the sub $200 (initial MSRP) market. It just apparently wouldn't be cost effective to do that with the 0.15 and 0.13u parts. To large a die.

It'll be interesting to compare die size of the NV34 with that of the RV410. One would think the RV410 would have fewer transistors (though that doesn't necessarily translate into smaller die.) I'm really hoping they manage to squeeze a 256 bit bus option on the RV410, but I'm not sure how that might impact die size, and how much a packaging increase that would bring.

 

[digitalwanderer]

A 256bit bus would be sweet, it'd make for a hell of a performer for a value card. 8)

 

[Bjorn]

I'm really hoping they manage to squeeze a 256 bit bus option on the RV410

I agree. And one has to wonder why there's no 6600 Ultra. Maybe that's the one with a 256 bit bus.

 

[Mariner]

I agree. And one has to wonder why there's no 6600 Ultra. Maybe that's the one with a 256 bit bus.

Good point - I hadn't thought of that.

Hopefully this will be true and RV410 will also be released with both 128-bit and 256-bit buses (as long as they have sensible naming conventions!).

As long as there is a like for like competitor between NV and ATI at all levels, we can hope for a 'price war' and get these good cards filtering down quickly.

 

[dizietsma]

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17152


7000 v 8000 .. looks like the rv410 has it's work cut out. I ams still very surprised that the 6600Gt managed to hit 500Mhz on the core. I wonder if Ati are also surprised ?

 

[dizietsma]

? 9800pro will be at that price point soon . 5900s should be too. Once they hit 110nm . Most likely with the refresh.

That will be good times .

I would guess that the 9800 Pro and 5900's will be history before they reach <= 100$. Mostly because i'm guessing that the NV43 and RV410 will be cheaper to manufacture.

Why? R300 and FX production lines are have been running smoothly for quite some time now while the X800s and 6800s are still problematic where production can't meet demand. That and smaller cores seems to me good reason to maintain production of the older gpus.

Why would you buy an old generation card when you can have a new? Would you put that synopsis to buying a new car, almost definitely no. There's no glamour left in the 5900 and 9800, they are now dead ducks.

 

[Sandwich]

....dead ducks.

Why? Maybe because they're cheaper? Hell, look at budget cards like the FX5200. These sell more than any other nvidia card.
Would you deny the money in the budget and value markets?

What would you recon would be the difference between a 8 pipeline budget X800 and a 9800pro anyway?
Sure there will be some differences, longer shaders for one, but basicly both cards would be the same.
Prolly the new replacement budget cards will be slower than the old flagships, as it has always been in the graphics business:

The old 8500 was faster than the 9000 and the 9200
GF3 beats GF4MX440
Ti4200 > FX5600
Ti4600 > FX5600u
9500pro > 9600pro

Those are good reasons to want the old ones.

As with cars, I'd always consider older models. Who would prefer, for instance, the second Subaru impreza GT turbo to the old one?

 

[Bjorn]

....dead ducks.

Why? Maybe because they're cheaper? Hell, look at budget cards like the FX5200. These sell more than any other nvidia card.
Would you deny the money in the budget and value markets?
..

The problem is, are they cheaper to manufacture ? I would guess that the answer is no. And the 6600 GT might be faster then the 5900 XT in Doom 3 and especially Half Life 2 which will make the 5900 XT obsolete rather quickly.

 

[PatrickL]

Hum Ati seems decided to use also PR war http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040813/135058_1.html

 

[Aivansama]

The problem is, are they cheaper to manufacture ?

And this should affect the consumer because...?

 

[Bjorn]

The problem is, are they cheaper to manufacture ?

And this should affect the consumer because...?

Not more then that the R9800 will be discontinued.