Technological discussion on PS3 security and crack.*

[Silent_Buddha]

Only real hack with 360 is with the DVD firmware, anything else is either impossible or not something your average user will attempt like soldering etc. PS3 is the same except BD firmware is also encrypted and can be updated with a system firmware update. So an easy hack like that is impossible on the PS3.
These are much more complicated systems with a lot more money poured into them, it'll take a lot of manpower to do something. Not to mention you'd be banned from Live/PSN if you did it anyways.

Well, 360 has been hacked and is able to load Linux and run homebrew now. But as you said it requires some fairly decent soldering skills as well as having a console where "fuses" in the CPU haven't been blown by Microsoft yet. The new kernel blows a "fuse" in older X360 CPUs to render the hack unworkable.

And just as unfortunately, uses for piracy followed closely with DLC and Live Arcade games being piratable now. /sigh...

But at least MS seems to have though forward about the possibility and build in protections they can activate retroactively even on launch consoles. And they seem to be capable to detect hacked DVD firmware as soon as a console connects online now. Although again, hackers are working on trying to figure out what MS is detecting and how to hide it.

Regards,
SB

 

[Grall]

This guys is a little naive if he thinks he'll have the same success. All he can do is make a dump of the memory. whopee doo....

All he can do?

He just claimed full control over the CPU/all of RAM. I'd assume that includes other memory ranges as well, including I/O hardware etc.

Doesn't matter if he can't crack the firmware decryption stage when he alledgedly can take over the system POST-firmware lockout stage. Well, until Sony plugs up whatever exploit he's using that is, if that's possible...

 

[senas8]

Well, 360 has been hacked and is able to load Linux and run homebrew now. But as you said it requires some fairly decent soldering skills as well as having a console where "fuses" in the CPU haven't been blown by Microsoft yet. The new kernel blows a "fuse" in older X360 CPUs to render the hack unworkable.

And just as unfortunately, uses for piracy followed closely with DLC and Live Arcade games being piratable now. /sigh...

But at least MS seems to have though forward about the possibility and build in protections they can activate retroactively even on launch consoles. And they seem to be capable to detect hacked DVD firmware as soon as a console connects online now. Although again, hackers are working on trying to figure out what MS is detecting and how to hide it.

Regards,
SB

Which is why the removal of R6T3 is eminent.

 

[zed]

Stuff like this pisses me off. Why don't these obviously talented jackasses grow up and do something that is actually useful?

same thing with virus creators etc (*). Honestly I just dont understand the reasoning behind it, I suppose theres some sort of minor intellectual challenge.


(*)Though I suppose its a good ad for getting a job at Norton etc

 

[Silent_Buddha]

same thing with virus creators etc (*). Honestly I just dont understand the reasoning behind it, I suppose theres some sort of minor intellectual challenge.


(*)Though I suppose its a good ad for getting a job at Norton etc

Heh, do you mean the old generation of virus writers that just tried to break things, and slightly newer generation that form botnets, or the new generation that are all in it for money and are often backed by various criminal rings?

If it's the current generation of virus writer's it seems it's mostly about the money. Doesn't make me hate the bastards any less though.

Regards,
SB

 

[rpg.314]

Mmm, a hacked PS3, yum....

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I share the view with all of you on piracy. It's too bad they can't isolate these two. Homebrew/piracy.

But there was homebrew on PS3, and it appears no-one was interested. Okay, the RSX was locked out, but you can write GPU code on any old system. I don't see the need for system workarounds like PSP to enable those who want to explore code on the system to actually do so.

In this case I think homebrew is just an excuse. The pursuit was the challenge of cracking the PS3. Whether for piracy or not, I don't know. If the guy can profit off it, I'm sure he will. I suppose the piracy potential here is people could boot their PS3 through its secure phase, and then write whatever they want to RAM...boot a game rip.

 

[senas8]

Linux on PS3 runs in hipervisor - disk access is very slow, video is confined to framebuffer only and is very slow as well. The system memory is extreamly limited. Slow disk IO (26MB/s!) starting and even using programs can be a real pain. :/

 

[patsu]

And you sign up to B3D today to tell us that by hacking into PS3, you can finally use PS3 Linux efficiently regardless of the consequences ?
[size=-2]I am trying to understand your motivation.[/size]

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes, but has anyone written anything that warrants more performance? If PS3 is broken open and the hombrew community gets free reign, what will actually appear that would never happen with the current limited system?

As I see it, the only reason to bother with PS3 development is for Cell, as that's unique to the platform. That isn't gimped, and no-one's interested. If you want to write games or apps, there are a zillion other, easier-to-work-with platforms!

 

[Grall]

Personally I feel that if I paid for a device, I should be able to use it any way I see fit, not only the way the original manufacturer wants me to. Lockout mechanisms a la consoles, Iphone etc should be declared illegal and banned by law IMO.

 

[assen]

Personally I feel that if I paid for a device, I should be able to use it any way I see fit, not only the way the original manufacturer wants me to. Lockout mechanisms a la consoles, Iphone etc should be declared illegal and banned by law IMO.

Feel free to boycott such lockout mechanisms, and also vote for those who oppose them - I guess the new EU-wide pirate party would love to promote "freedom" by banning this or that. In the meantime, I will enjoy the possibility of buying (and selling!) games via different business models - Gilette, downloadables, DLC - made possible only by secure hardware.

You certainly are free to do anything with a device, I'm against suing reverse-engineers etc. - but I think the hardware manufacturers, in turn, are completely in their right to try to stop you.

Edit: Even the basic model of "make game, sell copies" seems to be possible only on secure hardware.

 

[obonicus]

I wonder what revisions this applies to. From his twitter he's been working with the fat.

 

[-tkf-]

I wonder what revisions this applies to. From his twitter he's been working with the fat.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NJ4JFBfr1tY/S0_XhElFNSI/AAAAAAAAAbA/lQL4UzQaasU/s1600-h/ps3spi.jpg

His Blog:
http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/

 

[draconian]

All he can do?

He just claimed full control over the CPU/all of RAM. I'd assume that includes other memory ranges as well, including I/O hardware etc.

Doesn't matter if he can't crack the firmware decryption stage when he alledgedly can take over the system POST-firmware lockout stage. Well, until Sony plugs up whatever exploit he's using that is, if that's possible...

First of all, his claim is just that, "a claim". The PS3 still does verifying at run-time. All I suspect he can do as of now is modify a few bit in some parts of the system memory. I highly doubt he's tried all parts, especially the critical run time OS parts.

Right now he has to be able to alter the OS memory image so that the PS3 OS could run unsigned code. But like I said, the OS is signed/encrypted. A change in the OS image will result in a systems halt by the hypervisor. Now lets say he's truly hacked the hypervisor, and let's assume that there are no run time checks of the hypervisor during runtime, but only during the boot process. Then, he has something. And using his technique, I think it would be possible to make a modchip for pirated games.

But still, without the key, a pure software exploit would still be out of reach.

 

[obonicus]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NJ4JFBfr1tY/S0_XhElFNSI/AAAAAAAAAbA/lQL4UzQaasU/s1600-h/ps3spi.jpg

His Blog:
http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/

Yes, I know.
From a question posted to him on his twitter:

@geohot wow wow dont tell me you started of with a slim did you?

@alifaraz21 of course not, otheros is an amazing resource

 

[patsu]

Personally I feel that if I paid for a device, I should be able to use it any way I see fit, not only the way the original manufacturer wants me to. Lockout mechanisms a la consoles, Iphone etc should be declared illegal and banned by law IMO.

It's the same for me too, but not if the device is sold at a loss and the developers, especially the small guys, are put in a compromised position. The incident my cause Sony to reconsider some of its bolder plans too, and any attempt to counter exploits may cause inconvenience to legitimate users (e.g., PSN/XBL banning the wrong people).

Not saying he's there yet, but these are my principles.

 

[gongo]

What does this mean for Sony and their paid content, and PSN customers' online security?
What about future Cell v2 projects? Does this bypass the whole hypervisor architecture that could render Cell hardware and software compromised???

 

[obonicus]

No one knows. He doesn't seem to be lying about what he achieved, but he gotten unsigned code to run yet. We also have no idea about how this can be delivered (custom firmware or modchip), where it'll work, etc. etc. It's way early.

 

[flynn]

Stuff like this pisses me off. Why don't these obviously talented jackasses grow up and do something that is actually useful?

+1. I don't understand these people. I'd rather he created something instead, which requires actual talent, not a degree in E.E. and unlimited time.

The funny thing is, this time running Linux is not a valid excuse. If it took him 5 weeks, why didn't he do this in 2007?