Technically, are any developpers pushing the PS3 more than Factor 5

[Butta]

It seems to me that Lair will be the first PS3 title to trully show us what the PS3 is capable of. Technically speaking this title seems to be doing it all:

- Texture streaming
- Progessive meshing (and most likely culling)
- Huge draw distances
- Fluid dynamic simulations
- Large scale battles
- 1080P
- Sixaxis control
- 7.1 audio

It seems to me that Factor 5 is pushing the envelope more than any developer on the PS3. If I look at all the titles on the horizon, nothing seems to be able to compete in so many facets. Is Factor 5 a second party to Sony? There must be a reason or perhaps we haven't yet seen what other devs are cooking up!

Oh and I know that some people are not completely impressed with this title so far and I will agree that artistically some areas are better than others... but technically...wow!

 

[whatever7]

I wish they make the game in 720p. The fire effect and ground environment will surely look much better.

1080p dick waving is not worth the compromise they have made in the game. Most PS3 owners can't afford a 1080p TV for godsake.

But to answer your question, no. Maybe Naughty Dog's game but we don't know yet.

 

[deepbrown]

They are really like a Second Party developer...they compare themselves to Insomniac. They choose a system and create an engine for it...they have naother game in development to release this year.

Yes Naughty Dog are also pushing the envelope.

But how about Temco with Ninja Gaiden Sigma...60fps, 1080p and real-time self-shadowing.

Or Ninja Theory...next-gen animation, HDR, 4xAA, 8xAF, Cinematic Camera...

 

[woundingchaney]

In any given engine couldnt we make a list of technical phrases that the engine uses?? In the end to me its all the quality of the game itself (which Im eagerly looking forward to Lair) but simply listing a few keywords doesnt make their efforts on the console superior and/or inferior to other PS3 devs. Particularly if the engine is geared towards a game that is the only one in its genre. In the end "technically" impressive is most likely beyond my understanding when spoken in accordance with an entire engine.

IMO

 

[Butta]

In any given engine couldnt we make a list of technical phrases that the engine uses?? In the end to me its all the quality of the game itself (which Im eagerly looking forward to Lair) but simply listing a few keywords doesnt make their efforts on the console superior and/or inferior to other PS3 devs. Particularly if the engine is geared towards a game that is the only one in its genre. In the end "technically" impressive is most likely beyond my understanding when spoken in accordance with an entire engine.

IMO

Technically speaking... more seems to be going on with this title than what I has seen from other devs... not to say that it is better. They just seem to have done more to leverage the hardware.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

- Texture streaming

I cannot believe you made a point of this

To be honest, there isn't much in Lair that impresses me right now, water is nice tho.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not sure why you think that. Much of what you've listed as technical plus points are present in Naughty Dog's and Insomniac's and Ninja Theory's upcoming games, but in different ways. ie. Not the same huge draw distances perhaps, but just as many poly's on screen. And with better lighting and animation.

 

[Butta]

I cannot believe you made a point of this

To be honest, there isn't much in Lair that impresses me right now, water is nice tho.

Early titles like Resistance were not doing any texture streaming... so yeah while I agree that some textures are not perfect. At least they are making use of streaming (environment is so huge I imagine texture quality would be far worse otherwise).

 

[-tkf-]

I cannot believe you made a point of this

To be honest, there isn't much in Lair that impresses me right now, water is nice tho.

Though we can only judge from an alpha build it seems that F5 got it right with the streaming thing. This is a pretty open enviroment and it looks very impressive i guess the BR drive can deliver some pretty nefty results.

 

[Inane_Dork]

F5 has put a lot of different tech features in Lair, but I'm not sure that really qualifies the engine as pushing the PS3 hard. Little Big Planet, Motorstorm and Heavenly Sword all look far more appealing to me, and they can't do that without being technically very good.

 

[Neb]

It seems to me that Lair will be the first PS3 title to trully show us what the PS3 is capable of. Technically speaking this title seems to be doing it all:

- Texture streaming
- Progessive meshing (and most likely culling)
- Huge draw distances (32KM)
- Fluid dynamic simulations
- Large scale battles
- 1080P
- Sixaxis control
- 7.1 audio

Interesting, according to Julian Eggebrecht the draw distance is 20000 feet (6096 meters). This he say in the 'Lair in depth interview' at ~3:26 into the video.

Lair in depth interview video.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=18644&type=mov&pl=game

 

[patsu]

I'm tracking quietly since post like this will attract flakes
Many of the techniques have been tried before. The problem is we don't have any performance indicators for reference to back up Lair's impressiveness ...or lack thereof.

Also I think the technologies need to be put in context. e.g., How hard is it to have creatures ranging in size from human to coral snakes, how hard is it to zoom from far to near in flight time ? How many objects are "active" at any one time ?

I think you forgot cloth simulation too.

I also don't know how to quantify the music and imagination in this game. I supposed unlike most in the Lair thread, I appreciate their courage and hard work being so early in PS3's lifecycle. Good job F5 ! I am glad you're developing PS3 games.

 

[Jesus2006]

Interesting, according to Julian Eggebrecht the draw distance is 20000 feet (6096 meters). This he say in the 'Lair in depth interview' at ~3:26 into the video.

yeah, the 32(square) km is the size of a level i think, not the draw distance.


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As for Lair, we definately have no other game with such (scalable) detail and draw distance and such an amount of action going on on screen at once.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Interesting, according to Julian Eggebrecht the draw distance is 20000 feet (6096 meters).

That's the altitude of the dragon he's talking about. He wants a view from 20,000 feet up, which ought to be a huge draw distance. Though those figures mught just be representative rather than accurate, with 20,000 feet just being a nice, high sounding figure to describe players being very high up.

 

[Arwin]

That's the altitude of the dragon he's talking about. He wants a view from 20,000 feet up, which ought to be a huge draw distance. Though those figures mught just be representative rather than accurate, with 20,000 feet just being a nice, high sounding figure to describe players being very high up.

Yeah, but the 32km x 32km definitely refers to the maximum size of a single level that can be travelled without load times.

I think the real-time day and night cycle of the game deserves mention as well - not that many games support this (and on the PS3, none that I know of so far?).

It really is a very ambitious game, featuring an impressive list of technologies. It could still be crap, and each implementation of it could be botched as a result, but on paper, it sure does support an impressive list of technologies.

 

[Nick Laslett]

- Texture streaming

I think it was a good call highlighting this. As others have mentioned it was the lack of texture streaming in Resistance that constrained the graphics in that game.

As you can see with something like Gears of War, being able to stream textures has a huge impact on the final look of a game.

 

[Neb]

That's the altitude of the dragon he's talking about. He wants a view from 20,000 feet up, which ought to be a huge draw distance. Though those figures mught just be representative rather than accurate, with 20,000 feet just being a nice, high sounding figure to describe players being very high up.

You may be very correct about the view thing, neverthless here is a quote of what Julian Eggebrecht said (3:14-3:28).

"...We suddenly didn't have the excuse of a load inbetween but to just jump on there and just suddenly in the air. That was very though to figure out, scale and with that the technology behind it. This whole semlessly going into so much detail but then also getting the 20000 feet view, was a big thing..."

 

[Butta]

Interesting, according to Julian Eggebrecht the draw distance is 20000 feet (6096 meters). This he say in the 'Lair in depth interview' at ~3:26 into the video.

Lair in depth interview video.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=18644&type=mov&pl=game

Actually it is my mistake... it seems that 20,000 feet is the max altitude you can fly while 35KM is level size.

 

[Butta]

F5 has put a lot of different tech features in Lair, but I'm not sure that really qualifies the engine as pushing the PS3 hard. Little Big Planet, Motorstorm and Heavenly Sword all look far more appealing to me, and they can't do that without being technically very good.

While I agree with you that those games are more appealing to me... I am drawn to Lair simply as a technical showcase for the PS3. The developer interview showed me something level sizes with huge amounts of geometry that I never thought I would see this early in the PS3 lifecycle. It is not the gameplay that draws me to Lair, but the potential of an outstanding tech demo with decent gameplay. I do not think this game would do as well later in the lifecycle of the PS3.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

I'd say Hideo Kojima.