Stereoscopic 3D for Next Gen Consoles?

[grandmaster]

I read an interesting article about SkyHD running tests on 3D content:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7788582.stm

We've already seen Namco produce a 3D version of Ridge Racer 7 - there's a report on it here.

I may be wrong, but this should be relatively easy to implement and if TV programming follows suit, it could be seen as a logical progression.

A gimmick perhaps, but then people said the same about the Wii controls...

 

[ShadowRunner]

If 3D was to be used in the next gen consoles and is its defining feature then it would have to be technology that works with current HDTVs in my opinion. The masses are already taking there time to fully adopt HD, making people buy new TV sets for the next gen consoles is a big mistake so soon, maybe the generation after...

3d glasses could be a possibility using hi-def OLED panels if they were cheep enough to produce. What else is stopping the use of 3d glasses? Is and eye strain an issue and why?

 

[EasyRaider]

S3D will be used. The question is how widespread it will be. As of yet, most consumers are unaware of S3D, but that will change quickly in the next two years with more S3D cinema and demo setups at every major electronics store. How popular it turns out, I have no idea.

 

[chris1515]

http://www.mtbs3d.com/

Rumor of steroscopic 3d on PS3 next year:

I have received confirmation from Blitz Games Studios that Sony "fully intends" to support stereoscopic 3D gaming and Blu-ray 3D on the Sony Playstation 3 (PS3) in 2009. Blitz will of course be helping back this technology with their Blitz Tech engine.

The best part is console support will only need a bios upgrade to work, and we are told that the ability to add this capability via bios may be unique to Sony PS3 versus the other console solutions.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Surely though it'll require rendering the scren twice in the same amount of time, once for each eye? That'd be pretty demanding! Application is going to have to be very niche. Which TBH is something Sony are good at - finding tiny niche markets for their hardware

How does the HDMI spec facilitate this? Would each eye be sent as a separate frame, introducing an extra one frame lag?

 

[grandmaster]

I don't think the current HDMI spec would support it. My guess would be that frame blending is used. So that Ridge Racer 7 demo for example would be running at 30fps, not 60fps.

To get this to work and to preserve the illusion I expect that games must be v-locked - lack of v-lock would surely kill the effect.

 

[catisfit]

Surely though it'll require rendering the scren twice in the same amount of time, once for each eye?

That's how these work, which I have owned for years. These particular glasses work with any OpenGL game IIRC, they shift the camera a little to the left and right on alternate frames, while the goggles flicker between each eye being transparent or opaque.

They require a bit of tuning of eye spacing and focal point, but the effect is incredible. NASCAR 2003 is the game I remember playing with them the most, the addition of depth perception made the racing easier and so much more realistic.

 

[Fafalada]

To get this to work and to preserve the illusion I expect that games must be v-locked - lack of v-lock would surely kill the effect.

Only the method that uses glasses with electronic shutters (that are activated on odd/even sync). But that really needs the display to refresh at least 120hz, otherwise it'll be headache inducing.

You can use red/blue shift instead (tints the image, but requires no syncing compromises or wires to your glasses), or light-waveform orientation (no image quality problems, no syncing, no wires, but requires display/projection tech that can emit pixels in two waveform orientations).
Obviously if you already want people to buy new TVs, the last would be best but I have no clue how feasible it is for consumer market.

 

[grandmaster]

I think that it would need to work on the current generation of TVs in order to gain acceptance. I'm assuming that's what the Sky TV test is using.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Either way, polarized screens or interlaced left/right views, it'll be double the overhead. I used the Sega Master System 3D glasses at 25 fps flicker, and it did flicker, but the eyes adapted and I didn't get headaches as a result. All those without the glasses really suffered though! That's a big problem here. If you want social gaming or viewing, you need a system where everyone can wear the glasses, including people already wearing specs for optical correction, and be synchronised. I don't know what wireless solutions would be effective and reliable wiht out very cluttered airwaves.

 

[EasyRaider]

That's a big problem here. If you want social gaming or viewing, you need a system where everyone can wear the glasses, including people already wearing specs for optical correction, and be synchronised. I don't know what wireless solutions would be effective and reliable wiht out very cluttered airwaves.

Well, you could use passive polarized glasses. But I don't think multiple wireless shutter glasses would be a problem, except cost.

 

[grandmaster]

It's got to be the kind of system you find used in theme parks (eg Shrek 3D).

No way could the shutter-type 3D glasses be cost-effective.

 

[Fafalada]

It's got to be the kind of system you find used in theme parks (eg Shrek 3D).

Problem is theme parks use the light polarization (ie. waveform orientation I mentioned). There are no consumer displays that can work that way on the market to my knowledge. If you want cheap glasses AND compatible with existing displays, the only alternative I'm aware of is red/blue shift.

That said I was under impression(I could be way off though) that shutter-glasses are in the cost range of average console controller, so surely that could be acceptable?

 

[grandmaster]

Right. The Sky transmissions require special HDTVs too, in which case I do question the take-up.

The problem with the shutter-based glasses is of course cost, plus it would really put the dampeners on 'social' gaming - the sort of round-the-console stuff that Wii does so well.

 

[one]

As I mentioned earlier what's important for end users is that there is a standard content format, user interface will not be unified with better tech appearing in a healthy competition. Consumers will be able to choose the most optimal solution for their respective eyes.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1224194&postcount=183
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1225285&postcount=194

There were multiple 3D technologies promoted in the past with not so successful records, but this time tides are changing. Hollywood studios love 3D as it has been proved that it brings more people to theaters despite of more expensive tickets. Consumer electronics companies such as Panasonic are following the trend by showing 3D hardware at recent trade shows. As for Blu-ray movies, even the current spec can show two 25GB streams by its picture-in-picture function. TV broadcast bandwidth is too narrow for stereo 3D, so packaged media and games are expected to sell.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The Sega Master System LCD specs (SegaScope 3D Glasses) were about £30 if I remember rightly. This soure says they launched in the US in '88 for $50.

The major problem I see is community playing, working with conventional glasses, and not looking prohibitively stupid. Polarizing tech is the only system I can see becoming widespread, but not for a long, long time when 3D tech is cheap and content plentiful.

 

[Quaz51]

the first stereoscopy experience for console is the 3D Imager on Vectrex with rotating disc , 1983

http://cgi.ebay.fr/RARE-GCE-Vectrex...14&_trkparms=72:1526|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318

 

[V3]

I've got a 3D glasses that came with the old GF3. I never got it to work.

I remember going to one of those 3D cinemas a long time ago. The red/blue shift, never work on me. I never see any 3D from it. All I get was headache. Even on comic form that red/blue give me headache.

The Blu-ray 3D doesn't need glasses ?

 

[3dcgi]

There are polarized displays on the market. Here's one from Zalman.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/zalman-zm-m220w.html

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Gosh, it's only $780! A brief nose at that article suggests the trick here is an interlaced polarizing filter, which could be added to any screen. There's a halving of vertical resolution though. The tech could be rolled out into TVs without people being told almost, and then when 3D content becomes available, the sets would be ready.

The actual glasses themselves aren't going to work with many specs wearers though. My rimless specs won't take that hulking great clip-on system!