Then why have permadeath at all?
It's like...permadeath, without the actual permadeath.
Star Citizen, Roberts Space Industries - Chris Roberts' life support and retirement fund [2012-]
- Thread starter green.pixel
- Start date
It's like...permadeath, without the actual permadeath.
I pledged at kickstarter. I can say that this game is completely different than what was said then. First off we should already be playing the full game as promised.
They have lied a lot during the few years of development. I have ships that they said would never be sold again that have been sold again. They released skins and other items that were once again said to be a one time sale. But then released them again , were told what they did wrong and pulled them but then sold them again after that and said they don't care.
Also when I pledged they said we would alpha test but now they are holding back content saying they want it polished. Polished and alpha don't go together.
If they can't keep simple promises then why would I expect them to keep the bigger ones. It also doesn't help that every move they make seems to be in the name of money.
Have you ?
It had better be impressive. It had also better not be little 5 hour gameplay chunks for $50/ea.
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I know people who've been to Santa Monica studio.
A death would not be completely without effect. You care more about the character.
Actually there is no polishing. That comes later.
"We are grappling with blockers, not a polish (for those unfamiliar, polish is typically what a game does at the very end of the development process… you make the art nice, the particle effects fancy, make sure there are no ‘replace mes,’ etc.) I do not know how folks are remembering Arena Commander as some sort of polished experience. When we shipped it, it had a single ship, physics that didn’t work and multiplayer that didn’t multiplay. The community helped us make all of these things better, and there’s still massive amounts of work being done (and to be done.) No one on the team believes that Arena Commander represents the finished form of Star Citizen, and if anyone outside tells you this is the case then they are just wrong. (Now: Arena Commander looks great because we have amazing artists, but even then none of it was polished. Every single piece of art you saw last year has been revamped since then, every single ship has either been reworked or is scheduled to be. You’re seeing very impressive work, which is what Chris gets out of the team… but you aren’t seeing a polished game.) (And I am aware that the common reply to this is: but Chris used the /word/ polish in his letter! That is not the same thing as doing a polish pass, and I’m hard pressed to believe that that’s genuinely confusing folks.)"
They need to keep content for various reasons back. On the one hand it should always be exciting for the supporters. On the other hand should Starmarine work, hence new Backer be addressed. The FPS-part you can gain many new supporters. Some things they do not show until the majority is done. Like the star map. As for the single player they want to preserve the surprise.
I have also donated in October 2012. For me it's not completely different. However, the scope has increased. What I think is good. FPS etc. in the other hand were always planned.
"‘Feature creep!’
I don’t have much to say to this, beyond that it’s not accurate. At this point, we are not adding additional features to the plan, we’re building out the ones we’ve already scheduled. I’ve seen some recent posts about how Chris’ “first person universe” is at odds with the original Kickstarter-era plan… and that’s again not the case. It’s a more recent way of describing what he wants to accomplish, but everything we’re working on is still what was pitched back then: Privateer-style persistent universe, Squadron 42 single player game, first person boarding and so on. (A desire to avoid feature creep is exactly why we stopped doing stretch goals, despite being aware that they drive revenue.)"
‘You’re spending all your time on concept sales!’
We aren’t! Concept sales are something of a slow burn that uses mostly outsource talent who would not otherwise be working on the game. Early in the process, they require a fair amount of design work. Luckily, that’s work we need for the broader game: how will bounty hunters work, how passengers will work, how will repair work and so on. Once that’s done, they’re given to a concept artist (almost always an outside contractor) who works with high level folks on the form and function. When the ship’s design is finished, it gets assigned to a technical designer who figures out how the specific ship will integrate into the game (How big is it, how do the internals lay out, etc.) The fact that we can have regular concept sales is because we have the pipeline working properly – it should be a good sign for outsiders reviewing our production process, not a bad one! (Although the reason it work so smoothly is that it’s infinitely easier to predict a timeline than when you’re taking into account creating new technology and solving game issues. When a producer is trying to do that, he has to base the timeline on something much more vague… whereas you can pretty much know exactly how many hours it’ll take Ryan Church to make a spaceship!)
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/271173/some-thoughts-on-concerns
Like I said. The first single player (Sqadron 42) will be ca. 20 hours. The recorded animations for the story were nearly 5-6 hours long. And that is just for the story part of the game. There will be the whole action and flying too.
Pro tip Jupiter , I've heard all that before , after the flip flops and original reasons. If there is one thing CIG pays money for its PR speak.
The fact is concept sales are made for one reason , more money since they are blowing through it so fast. That is why ships I pledge for at kickstarter haven't even exited out of the concept art. I bought my starfarer and catipiler back in 2012 and only the starfarer has had any update (still concept art) and only after they sold it again (even though they said they would never do that) the other has had no content update. Meanwhile they have launched newer ships that were already flyable.
As for feature creep , he can say what he wants , but we already know its true , concept sales of more ships has increased dev time and they added pets.
The fact is concept sales are made for one reason , more money since they are blowing through it so fast. That is why ships I pledge for at kickstarter haven't even exited out of the concept art. I bought my starfarer and catipiler back in 2012 and only the starfarer has had any update (still concept art) and only after they sold it again (even though they said they would never do that) the other has had no content update. Meanwhile they have launched newer ships that were already flyable.
As for feature creep , he can say what he wants , but we already know its true , concept sales of more ships has increased dev time and they added pets.
@eastmen
The word creep does not apply in Star Citizen because the scope was never fixed. Roberts said in the very beginning that the more he got, the more he will do. That is true of every Kickstarter. The word growth should be used over creep in this context.
When you and I agree on the scope. Then you come back and add things outside of the scope. This would be creep. But this is not what is happening in Star Citizen.
A lot of people do not understand this. The biggest advantage. One of the greatest aspect of this project is that it does not have a fixed scope. When the scope expands it does not take resources from other areas that are in process. Roberts spins up another team and sets them to the task. He has dedicated teams to dedicated projects. And then he has teams which are focused on helping all teams. They create for example character and ship pipeline tools that help all teams to build everything faster.
When GTA V were written they knew what they were doing. From the beginning to the end. They knew how much they would have to spend. So they knew what they could do. Can you imagine Roberts reaction in 10 October 2012 if he would know that the backers will give im 89+ million USD?
The word creep does not apply in Star Citizen because the scope was never fixed. Roberts said in the very beginning that the more he got, the more he will do. That is true of every Kickstarter. The word growth should be used over creep in this context.
When you and I agree on the scope. Then you come back and add things outside of the scope. This would be creep. But this is not what is happening in Star Citizen.
A lot of people do not understand this. The biggest advantage. One of the greatest aspect of this project is that it does not have a fixed scope. When the scope expands it does not take resources from other areas that are in process. Roberts spins up another team and sets them to the task. He has dedicated teams to dedicated projects. And then he has teams which are focused on helping all teams. They create for example character and ship pipeline tools that help all teams to build everything faster.
When GTA V were written they knew what they were doing. From the beginning to the end. They knew how much they would have to spend. So they knew what they could do. Can you imagine Roberts reaction in 10 October 2012 if he would know that the backers will give im 89+ million USD?
It certainly is a unique development effort. Whether or not it is sustainable or will produce a high quality product is quite uncertain however. I do understand that it's hard not to be excited by the concept and all of their PR idealism.
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D
Deleted member 13524
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Because nothing would be a better fit for wing commander's spiritual successor than a virtual pet dog.
Gosh, I wish I could go defend my sector against invaders but I can't find anyone to feed my dog so I need to stay at the station.
An external expert view from the Director of Production from Quantic Dream who discusses Star Citizen in a long german podcast.
"Only n00bs do not believe in Star Citizen": https://soundcloud.com/andre-peschk...hmitz-nur-n00bs-glauben-nicht-an-star-citizen
He sees Star Citizen very positively.
a small glimpse of the content:
- project is very possible
- leakage through coordination of many teams
- budget numbers of publisher games usually include advertising expenses that make up a large part
- with 85 - 100 million USD CIG are far forward so that can be a great game to be made
- they can develop circa 4,2 years with 300 employees and 100 million USD
- but they have 300 employees achieved only in 2015
- big online games are more complex than single player games
- for a publisher Star Citizen would be a too great a risk
- publishers wants a risk diversified portfolio
"Only n00bs do not believe in Star Citizen": https://soundcloud.com/andre-peschk...hmitz-nur-n00bs-glauben-nicht-an-star-citizen
He sees Star Citizen very positively.
a small glimpse of the content:
- project is very possible
- leakage through coordination of many teams
- budget numbers of publisher games usually include advertising expenses that make up a large part
- with 85 - 100 million USD CIG are far forward so that can be a great game to be made
- they can develop circa 4,2 years with 300 employees and 100 million USD
- but they have 300 employees achieved only in 2015
- big online games are more complex than single player games
- for a publisher Star Citizen would be a too great a risk
- publishers wants a risk diversified portfolio
Sorry how is feature creep not in this game when they were still adding things like pets as stretch goals in Nov 2014 2 years after kickstarter.
The kickstarter was for the best space sim ever with some light FPS like boarding. The game we are getting now is completely different and way behind schedual because of these new features they keep adding. That is feature creep.
What's more , CIG isn't honest and has proven their lack of honesty time and time again.
stretch goal at 4mill
A new star system will be added to the game for every $100,000 pledged already has 50 systems
at 4.5mill they say it will have 60 systems (so theyve actually added 1 system per 50k)
at 5 mill 70 systems - they are back to 1 system per 100k as promised and the last time they give a total for systems in the stretch goals
so at 88mill thats an additional 440 star systems
A new star system will be added to the game for every $100,000 pledged already has 50 systems
at 4.5mill they say it will have 60 systems (so theyve actually added 1 system per 50k)
at 5 mill 70 systems - they are back to 1 system per 100k as promised and the last time they give a total for systems in the stretch goals
so at 88mill thats an additional 440 star systems
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Well, get cracking, boys...!
[08:18] Fastball115 asks:
Given the level of fidelity shown in the recent Gamescom demo and the Social Module v0 release, I was wondering what the road map for developing 100 complete star systems looks like. Could you provide some idea of how star systems will be rolled out to the community in the long term?
CR: Even though you’ve just seen ArcCorp, we’ve got quite a few other locations that we’ve been working on. More importantly, we’ve been working on these base architecture sets which we’ve talked about before. We use this architecture style in ArcCorp that we call Structuralism. Structuralism is one of the five or six fundamental architecture sets that we’re going to have in the universe of Star Citizen. Other examples would be Super Modernism, which you’ve kind of seen in the high end sort of luxury hangar, also sort of stuff you’d see on Terra. We’d have Monumentalism, which would be the big edifices, big, sort of huge imposing buildings. Our own version of Monumentalism would be the kind of stuff you’d see in Rome, with the Colliseum, these big imposing monuments of civilization. So that’s monumentalism.
We have Colonialism, which is more of like frontier outposts, ??Hannowism??, which is sort of more like this bunker style stuff. So we have these various differenty styles of architecture, and they are built of modular pieces called the tier sets, and so a good example is in the Stanton system which will be the first system that you will be adventuring around, we’re putting you in the large world map, a sort of fictionalized version of Stanton, not the proper Stanton, that will come online separately, and then we’ll just activate it. But Stanton has four main planets in it, and each of the main planets has a distinct feel. You’re on ArcCorp, and you know, the big thing with the Stanton system is that the planets were sold off to various corporations, so ArcCorp owns one, Hurston Dynamics owns another one, Microtech owns another one, and Crusader Industries owns another one. Crusader are the guys that built the Starliner. So each one of those places is quite distinct, Crusader sort of these floating buildings around the gas giant that allows them to build these bigger ships, not constrained so much by gravity. Then you have Hurston Dynamics which is sort of like this industrial world, an industrial wasteland where it’s full of smog and foundries, it looks like something from the beginning of Joe Versus the Volcano. And then we have ArcCorp which is this whole world covered by this city essentially. And then we have Microtech which is the company behind the mobiGlas and sim stuff, and they are on a perpetually cold snowy planet, so they’ve all got very different feels to them, but they all fundamentally underneath it all use this structuralism set with some modifications and styles, so they have some sort of unique bespoke aspects for each one of these locations, but they all use this common building set and then materials, colors, and stuff change out.
So we’re building these sets, and they are interchangeable, and modular and can be built on top of each other to allow us once we’ve got those building blocks in place, to be able to deliver a lot more of these locations. One of the first things we’d deliver would be the Stanton system with these four different planets you can travel between and get missions, do business, and trade. And then, we’d ultimately open up some jump gates to go to other systems and that’s kind of our plan. You know right now we’re going to give you this large world map which comes with multi-crew which will be a baby version of Star Citizen. You’ll be able to do a lot of the things you’ll be able to do in Star Citizen, but missing a bunch of the functionality we plan and full time proper persistence. Being able to buy and sell different stuff in game will be coming pretty soon, landing and taking off from different planets won’t be there, but will be something we’ll be rolling in, but that will be our test bed, I think I mentioned this before, as a multi-crew. And then we’ll be building these systems, in parallel, when we have our first one ready to go, BAM! We’ll drop you in it, and then we’ll be flying around our very first system which will be Stanton. And then some more systems which will come online and we’ll open up jump points between them and we’ll slowly expand out. The plan is, we’re laying a lot of track, with these pieces that we’re putting together and you’re going to start to see the benefit of all that coming towards the end of this year and through next year where all these pieces have been built, and then it is quite quick for us to lay out the environments where you’d land. Yes, there’s a lot of crafted stuff, but we’re also using some systematic or procedural tools to populate stuff. So there will be like - you put a bar in there, and there will be all sorts of rules with a bar, like I can just populate NPCs around and they’ll be like, “Oh, there’s a bar nearby. I’ll go there to have a drink after work and then after that I’ll go to my home”. We’ll set all that up, that’s what subsumption is, as mentioned in Tony’s plan, but people would have their lives and all this other stuff that we’ve talked about.
So, that’s kind of the plan, we’re planning to deliver more systems. Just to let you know, when it says 100 complete star systems, we don’t mean we’re delivering 100 complete star systems tomorrow or all in one day because you know, we got to a bunch of our star systems in our stretch goals, and also some of these star systems are to be explored and found. So, our focus is to get the core UEE space and the surrounding systems. The ones that you see will be on the star map, which we’ll be revealing and sharing on the web next month, you’ll have the first couple of key systems where you’ll be able to adventure in, in more detail on this star map and then the other ones will be more high level, and then as we get into them, we’ll build them up. But, that’s the plan is to start with one system and then move our way out. We’re sort of laying the groundwork for that. So that’s our plan, that’s how we’ll roll them out, but not committing to specific dates though cause I’ve learned that issue.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3kzfd0/transcript_10_for_the_chairman_episode_66/
We could get a big game by the end of October. One system and a lot of different things to do.
[22:02] Nick asks:
Will the drop of ac 2.0 multicrew mayhem see the addition of a few more maps to play in? Or will the existing two be expanded?
CR: First of all, I think we’re starting to, well not really starting to, we’ve decided it’s not really Arena Commander that we’re dropping, we’re dropping multi-crew which is really, we’ve been calling it SC Alpha for awhile, but SC Alpha as we drop with the multicrew will have Arena Commander inside of it, it will have Star Marine inside it, it will have the social Planetside inside it. Plus, you’ll be playing on a brand new map, so I think I’ve talked about this before. It’s a large world map, it’s much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, MUCH, MUCH BIGGER than the Arena Commander maps, which are limited to I think about 8 to 10 km in diameter. For this map, it’s hundreds of thousands or millions of kilometers in size, so it’s geometrically larger by a long way. It’s setup to be more like the persistent universe, it’s not meant to be a simulation the way Arena Commander itself is, which is a bit more gamey. You are going to spawn on a space station the way you saw at the Gamescom demo. You’ll be able to go to different panels and say “Oh, I want to pull up this ship from my account”, and say you own a Constellation, so it will say “Yup, Constellation is on Landing Pad 3”, and then you can go over to Landing Pad 3. It’ll be keyed only for you use and once you’ve used it, your other friends can come and join you and you can take off from Landing Pad 3. We’ll have a safe zone surrounding the starting space station, and it will be a station similar to what you saw at Gamescom, but with more stuff and more additions and then there will be other areas you can go and explore.
So you could go and explore other space stations, other moons, asteroid fields, communication satellites that you’ll be able to hack into and get information, and destinations you’ll be able to go and fly. There will be areas you can go and salvage stuff, reclaim stuff. There’s some asteroids, some space stations, there’s some stuff where you’ll be able to go and have PVP fights inside as well as on ships, there will be weapons you’ll be able to salvage and scavenge, it's going to be kinda fun. It’s going to be kind of a mini little game, much more free form and allow more things for players to do. So yeah, it’s a pretty big map, and it’s got a lot more than any of our other stuff has, and there’ll be a fair amount of stuff for people to do. We’re interested in seeing what happens. There will be random AI encounters you can go and find, sort of have a more single player experience, but there’ll be other areas where it’ll be okay to fight other players and then you can have at it. Yeah, it’s going to be a fun, free form experience and like I said, it’s our version of the test kitchen of the Persistent Universe, where we’ll start to roll out new functionality and new testing. We get minable asteroids happening with the voxel tech we want to work on, put asteroids out there you can go mine, you can have that happening. You want to have a cargo mission where you go from A to B, those kinds of things would start to happen and spawn on here.
That’s what we’re calling our large world map, Crusader, is the name of the map, and it’s based around the gas giant of Crusader. Instead of adding new maps, we’ll probably just keep adding points of interest because we’re on a large world map so the thing is massive. It could be a couple billion kilometers across, so we’ll be able to keep on adding points of interest. There will be places where you can repair your ship, there will be places where you can refuel. So yeah, a big difference between Arena Commander and what we are calling SC Alpha. Obviously then, we start expanding on that, because then at some point we’ll let you go down and land on a planet, and then you’ll be on the Planetside location as you’ve been seeing in ArcCorp. You can also buy and sell stuff, and then take off and go to other places. That’s basically the Star Citizen game cycle, and then we keep adding more functionality, more locations, open up more jump points and then go on from there.
It’s going to be cool, and we’ll be giving you the first drop of SC Alpha/multicrew ready for you after Citizen Con, so end of October. We’re feeling pretty optimistic about being able to do that, but you know, that’s still a little ways off, so don’t shoot me if something blows up and goes wrong. So far, in what we’ve got left to do, in terms of scoping it we think we should be on that target, but you’re getting it raw from the source, there’s no padding in that. But definitely, you’ll be playing it not far after that, and having a good time. We’re excited about it, we’re kind of keen to see how people feel about it, because there will be lots of more stuff to do and I’m sure there will be loads of cool videos you guys will be making and we’ve got a big plan to deliver a lot of content, carrying out from then onwards.
That alone sounds like a whole game. I will be happy.
[22:02] Nick asks:
Will the drop of ac 2.0 multicrew mayhem see the addition of a few more maps to play in? Or will the existing two be expanded?
CR: First of all, I think we’re starting to, well not really starting to, we’ve decided it’s not really Arena Commander that we’re dropping, we’re dropping multi-crew which is really, we’ve been calling it SC Alpha for awhile, but SC Alpha as we drop with the multicrew will have Arena Commander inside of it, it will have Star Marine inside it, it will have the social Planetside inside it. Plus, you’ll be playing on a brand new map, so I think I’ve talked about this before. It’s a large world map, it’s much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, MUCH, MUCH BIGGER than the Arena Commander maps, which are limited to I think about 8 to 10 km in diameter. For this map, it’s hundreds of thousands or millions of kilometers in size, so it’s geometrically larger by a long way. It’s setup to be more like the persistent universe, it’s not meant to be a simulation the way Arena Commander itself is, which is a bit more gamey. You are going to spawn on a space station the way you saw at the Gamescom demo. You’ll be able to go to different panels and say “Oh, I want to pull up this ship from my account”, and say you own a Constellation, so it will say “Yup, Constellation is on Landing Pad 3”, and then you can go over to Landing Pad 3. It’ll be keyed only for you use and once you’ve used it, your other friends can come and join you and you can take off from Landing Pad 3. We’ll have a safe zone surrounding the starting space station, and it will be a station similar to what you saw at Gamescom, but with more stuff and more additions and then there will be other areas you can go and explore.
So you could go and explore other space stations, other moons, asteroid fields, communication satellites that you’ll be able to hack into and get information, and destinations you’ll be able to go and fly. There will be areas you can go and salvage stuff, reclaim stuff. There’s some asteroids, some space stations, there’s some stuff where you’ll be able to go and have PVP fights inside as well as on ships, there will be weapons you’ll be able to salvage and scavenge, it's going to be kinda fun. It’s going to be kind of a mini little game, much more free form and allow more things for players to do. So yeah, it’s a pretty big map, and it’s got a lot more than any of our other stuff has, and there’ll be a fair amount of stuff for people to do. We’re interested in seeing what happens. There will be random AI encounters you can go and find, sort of have a more single player experience, but there’ll be other areas where it’ll be okay to fight other players and then you can have at it. Yeah, it’s going to be a fun, free form experience and like I said, it’s our version of the test kitchen of the Persistent Universe, where we’ll start to roll out new functionality and new testing. We get minable asteroids happening with the voxel tech we want to work on, put asteroids out there you can go mine, you can have that happening. You want to have a cargo mission where you go from A to B, those kinds of things would start to happen and spawn on here.
That’s what we’re calling our large world map, Crusader, is the name of the map, and it’s based around the gas giant of Crusader. Instead of adding new maps, we’ll probably just keep adding points of interest because we’re on a large world map so the thing is massive. It could be a couple billion kilometers across, so we’ll be able to keep on adding points of interest. There will be places where you can repair your ship, there will be places where you can refuel. So yeah, a big difference between Arena Commander and what we are calling SC Alpha. Obviously then, we start expanding on that, because then at some point we’ll let you go down and land on a planet, and then you’ll be on the Planetside location as you’ve been seeing in ArcCorp. You can also buy and sell stuff, and then take off and go to other places. That’s basically the Star Citizen game cycle, and then we keep adding more functionality, more locations, open up more jump points and then go on from there.
It’s going to be cool, and we’ll be giving you the first drop of SC Alpha/multicrew ready for you after Citizen Con, so end of October. We’re feeling pretty optimistic about being able to do that, but you know, that’s still a little ways off, so don’t shoot me if something blows up and goes wrong. So far, in what we’ve got left to do, in terms of scoping it we think we should be on that target, but you’re getting it raw from the source, there’s no padding in that. But definitely, you’ll be playing it not far after that, and having a good time. We’re excited about it, we’re kind of keen to see how people feel about it, because there will be lots of more stuff to do and I’m sure there will be loads of cool videos you guys will be making and we’ve got a big plan to deliver a lot of content, carrying out from then onwards.
That alone sounds like a whole game. I will be happy.
Thats slightly less than the 440 systems promised
On a web page there was a headline star citizen releases new ship
not knowing much about star citizen I clicked the link which took me to the announcement in the forum
$350 - $450 and all the replies where "wow thats a great price" I'm like WTF are these people insane.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/286195/endeavor-pricing
not knowing much about star citizen I clicked the link which took me to the announcement in the forum
$350 - $450 and all the replies where "wow thats a great price" I'm like WTF are these people insane.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/286195/endeavor-pricing
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