SquareEnix explains why FFXIII is PS3 exclusive - DVD9 not enough
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mckmas8808
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PC games don't count. Plain and simple!!
thenefariousone
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PC Games are a great example of why space isn't currently an issue.
Without beating a dead horse too much: the majority of pc games are 4-6 GB in size, despite having no size limitations and despite having had 720p or greater calibre graphics for years.
PCs are the wild frontier for games, where technological advances and new genres usually emerge due to a much lower barrier of entry.
The level of graphics that pcs can do today, is only recently possible on consoles. Since the sizes of pc games haven't increased dramatically, there's not a lot of reason to believe that console games will increase dramatically in size in the forseable future.
Excluding of course games that are "artificially enlarged" on the ps3.
Without beating a dead horse too much: the majority of pc games are 4-6 GB in size, despite having no size limitations and despite having had 720p or greater calibre graphics for years.
PCs are the wild frontier for games, where technological advances and new genres usually emerge due to a much lower barrier of entry.
The level of graphics that pcs can do today, is only recently possible on consoles. Since the sizes of pc games haven't increased dramatically, there's not a lot of reason to believe that console games will increase dramatically in size in the forseable future.
Excluding of course games that are "artificially enlarged" on the ps3.
mckmas8808 said:
thenefariousone said:
I will suppose this post was directed at me.
While the real world outside a window doesn't change dad to day from your windown it is simply not true that the view from all windows are the same...even in the same city block or from the same building. I don't think it necessary to qualify that statement as the world you describe is not the one I live in.
MMOs are quite atypical games in that often the game is forgiven for lack of diverse/high fidelity artistic content etc.
In any case, the argument is that what's good today will be good tomorrow but that ignores that what's done tomorrow is not what is done today. I'm sure that row has been plowed already in this thread already so I won't belabor the point any further.
This applies to MMO and PC games alike and there are issues related to both which are not taken into account when mentioing them.
-install size is not idicative of how much space unique data takes on the disk media
-the primary media for pc games has been CD such that even the space of DVD could not be fully leveraged in the general case; this is due to the components people in their machines; the component or rather the lowest expected denominator is what keeps many things from being leveraged fully in the PC domain ranging from media space, the asset fidelity to the range and quality of effects/lighting/shadowing etc.
-the requirements for one genre of games is not the same for another and for that matter of one game to another
As far as Zelda is concerned it would not be possible to use more than the media allowed for. Generally speaking, textures and other content suffered on the GCN as compared to the Xbox because of this when the GCN was well capable otherwise....barring RAM space of course and how quickly data could be swapped out of it.
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scooby_dooby
Legend
TheChefO said:
Actually, if you assume the same sound requirements, then they could triple the rest of the game assets and still fit on DVD.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Yes they DO!! Why the heck wouldn't they count? Come on man, don't be ridiculous, of course PC games are relevant(that's not to say they are definitive evidence), they are the best measuring stick we have of what the requirements are of a HD game, they have no size restrictions and aim for very high resolutions.mckmas8808 said:
thenefariousone said:
You bring up a very good point. For Sony exclusive studios it wouldn't be very hard to make the content bloated and have it take up a lot of space just so they can claim how this game would not be possible on DVD9. It's certainly not beyond Sony to use such an angle.
scooby_dooby
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kyleb said:Heh, Dave Baumann posted the anwser to that question pages ago.
Dave hasn't posted in this thread as far as i can tell
I'm sorry about the goose chase there. Turns out it was the other recent thread on the subject, right above your first post on this page.
thenefariousone
Newcomer
I'm not saying that view is same, rather than when viewing any given city, you'll see a lot of repetition of architecture styles within that city.
I rather like your comment about typical vs atypical game types, as it strengthens my initial point!
Atypical and typical games alike currently have one thing in common: they consume about the same amount of space. What one does with the bits and bytes can vary widely. However - as it stands right now, they have ample space on a DVD to go forth and create.
Notice how Nintendo ("we only market innovation") hasn't said a single thing about space?
I rather like your comment about typical vs atypical game types, as it strengthens my initial point!
Atypical and typical games alike currently have one thing in common: they consume about the same amount of space. What one does with the bits and bytes can vary widely. However - as it stands right now, they have ample space on a DVD to go forth and create.
Notice how Nintendo ("we only market innovation") hasn't said a single thing about space?
scificube said:
While PC games have no theoretical size limitations, there are a few practical issues that you shouldn't forget.
- Most PC video cards still only have 256MB onboard memory. Both X360 and PS3 will have more room for textures in any given scene, so the overall world detail may be a bit higher than what we've seen in PC games. I know this to be an issue on an actual PC game's development.
Not to mention that many PC games have to work with far smaller texture memory, so even if they reduce texture resolution, they'll still have to fit into a very small pool.
- Most PC games are still released on CDs and this puts a practical limit on how many assets they'll include.
- Making all those assets costs a lot of money, and PC game budgets can't rise as high as those of console games. The only games that'll sell enough copies to warrant a budget of 20-50M$ are games like WoW and Sims, which have to run on low-spec PCs to sell enough copies. So even though they might have the budget, they're even more restricted by the hardware limitations.
However, Square can build zillions of models and paint even more textures, knowing that it'll all be seen on every single PS3 owner's TV who buys their game.
So be careful when using the PC as a reference.
- Most PC video cards still only have 256MB onboard memory. Both X360 and PS3 will have more room for textures in any given scene, so the overall world detail may be a bit higher than what we've seen in PC games. I know this to be an issue on an actual PC game's development.
Not to mention that many PC games have to work with far smaller texture memory, so even if they reduce texture resolution, they'll still have to fit into a very small pool.
- Most PC games are still released on CDs and this puts a practical limit on how many assets they'll include.
- Making all those assets costs a lot of money, and PC game budgets can't rise as high as those of console games. The only games that'll sell enough copies to warrant a budget of 20-50M$ are games like WoW and Sims, which have to run on low-spec PCs to sell enough copies. So even though they might have the budget, they're even more restricted by the hardware limitations.
However, Square can build zillions of models and paint even more textures, knowing that it'll all be seen on every single PS3 owner's TV who buys their game.
So be careful when using the PC as a reference.
Laa-Yosh said:
Ever heard of Steam?
Kidding, but yeah i find it utterly disgusting that at this day and age, PC games are still released on multiple CDs instead of DVD.
mckmas8808
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scooby_dooby said:
I guess I was vindicated from this rant.
scooby_dooby
Legend
mckmas8808 said:I guess I was vindicated from this rant.
lol....mmm I don't think so. They are stil 'relevant', I was careful not to say that they were the definitive measure. To say they don't count at all is being a little unrealistic IMO.
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