Exactly!!
*spin-off* Importance of Backward Compatibility Discussion
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Exactly!!
So, it seems that we now know that MS was at least intending to feature on-board backwards compatibility in the 720 as of an internal presentation prepared a couple of years ago.
Does this change anyone's position with regards to the importance of backwards compatibility for Sony next generation?
Given the size of this generation's libraries, I think I'd be more tempted to go 720 if it had backwards compatibility and PS4 did not.
Does this change anyone's position with regards to the importance of backwards compatibility for Sony next generation?
Given the size of this generation's libraries, I think I'd be more tempted to go 720 if it had backwards compatibility and PS4 did not.
Prophecy2k
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I don't think the none-inclusion or inclusion of BC alone would affect my choice of which next-gen console to purchase.
If that's your only criteria for decision then you might as well stick with you current gen console and never upgrade.
If Sony decides to include SPUs, or some purchaseable BC module, or at least some streaming solution then I would be happy and buy a PS4. If they afford me no option for BC at all with PS4, then I'll be pissed, but would still buy it. I would simply be annoyed at being made to hold onto both consoles. Being able to sell my PS3, and play all my software on PS4 would be an extrenmely appreciated convenience.
If that's your only criteria for decision then you might as well stick with you current gen console and never upgrade.
If Sony decides to include SPUs, or some purchaseable BC module, or at least some streaming solution then I would be happy and buy a PS4. If they afford me no option for BC at all with PS4, then I'll be pissed, but would still buy it. I would simply be annoyed at being made to hold onto both consoles. Being able to sell my PS3, and play all my software on PS4 would be an extrenmely appreciated convenience.
Well, but I never owned a 360.. I've been PS3 exclusive this gen. I could buy a 720 and get access to both the current gen 360 games and the next gen 720 games with one purchase.
Yeah, ditto. It'd be nice if they came out with a BC module that contained Cell/RSX/RAM without bothering with the optical disc, hard drive, video output chain and power supply, but no one else has done anything quite like that so far.
What about the SEGA BC devices for carts? Did they have anything more than just a slot conversion?
They were justa slot conversion, the "audio processor" was the CPU from a Master System and the graphics chip could be initialized in Master System mode.
So hardware BC has always been internal to the main system. I guess in the Olden Days using the old hardware as an audio processor or somesuch made it a worthwhile inclusion, but we're past that point now (and XB360 tagged onto Durango just to handle IO is a bit excessive ). I do feel the add-on is the smartest route now. Shrink the gubbins, stick 'em on a PCIe card. The only obvious issues for me are cooling and what the added cost to the base unit would be to support an optional BC upgrade.
). I do feel the add-on is the smartest route now. Shrink the gubbins, stick 'em on a PCIe card. The only obvious issues for me are cooling and what the added cost to the base unit would be to support an optional BC upgrade.I believe you can build your own converter (but you'd probably need to rip a MS cart connector out). There were actually two converters come to think of it - one that was just for carts and the more well known converter that was for carts and cards.
At least one Master System game - Phantasy Star - had a Megadrive release. AFAIK it was the exact same binary as the Master System version, just in a Megadrive cart. It may even used the same chips, just on a Megadrive cart PCB with the chip pinouts routed to the appropriate places.
upnorthsox
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So hardware BC has always been internal to the main system. I guess in the Olden Days using the old hardware as an audio processor or somesuch made it a worthwhile inclusion, but we're past that point now (and XB360 tagged onto Durango just to handle IO is a bit excessive
Yep, cooling should be no more/worse than any other midrange gpu card. I'd want to see it as a snap-on extender so it then adds on 3.5-4" on the width of the ps4/720. I'd think as a stand alone accessory at $99 it would be a money maker for either of them. Put it in a bundle and it'd still be worth your while.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
So hardware BC has always been internal to the main system. I guess in the Olden Days using the old hardware as an audio processor or somesuch made it a worthwhile inclusion, but we're past that point now (and XB360 tagged onto Durango just to handle IO is a bit excessive
I dunno, putting the current Xenos/Xenon on Durango would be abit of a boon if MS was willing to do it.
They could run the entire OS, all services, sound, Kinect and anything else they wanted to run on it, leaving all the new Durango HW to handle only the game stuff. Enabling also BC without them having to put in any effort to write software emulation layers, would be quite a nice little addition to the Durango provided the 360 chip could be manufactured small enough hand cheaply enough.
I'd definitely pick one up. My shortly-after-launch PS3's ability to host and run PS1 and PS2 games straight off the XMB with full memory card emulation is really nice, and I'd be pleased as hell to go another generation like that.
As a side question, do folks here think porting games from PS3 to some hypothetical x86/DirectX PS4 is likely to be harder or easier than porting from PS2 to PS3?
PS2 to PS3 obviously involves a lot of tricky graphics pipeline reworking, while PS3 to PS4 will require more work on CPU than on GPU, presumably.
What do you mean by port? Remake?
Sorry, remake, remaster, yes.
Probably not as bad as PS2 > PS3, which needs a complete rewrite. It'd be a lot of work though (assuming x86 cores in PS4. RSX code should be relatively easy to port unless devs get very lowdown with it).
Since I was late to this thread I will some up by opinions below;
For me BC affects all my purchases. BC only came relevant in the age of CDs and DVD. Its one of the reason I buy SD cards and USB devices. I will NEVER buy a Vita. I am usually one generation behind in video games because the old games are cheap and I know right away which games are worth playing and I can just buy them all at one time and play them through at my own pace.
Now as the 360 is coming to the end of its life cycle "die dam it!", I will pick it up soon but if the 720 had good BC I would pick that up instead since it would allow me to play the games I missed and also play anything new and fantastic that comes out. So if the 720 costs $400 at launch and a 360 costs $200 then I would spend the extra money just to have my cake and eat it too.
Now I am playing the the ps2 backlog, games are easy to get and are good quality. I'll never buy a ps3 because the entire catalogue of the ps3 pales in comparison to ps2/ps1 there is simply no reason to buy the console TODAY when the xbox360 is just as good, the ps2 is cheaper and has a better library of hundreds of hours of playtime. This is the problem consoles without BC will face. Why would somebody spend more money to get LESS content? Why would somebody give up disk media for cloud media that expires? Why would someone in the age of iphones and ipods give up all their old software when the controllers are all the same?
To me it seems;
PS2 had BC = PS1 instant death. PS2 sells millions.
PS3 no BC = PS2 still outselling ps3. PS3 slow burn.
Wii BC = gamecube instant death. Wii Sells millions.
360 BC = old xbox regulated to hardcore players only
WiiU has BC = unknown
A key feature of BC is also the controllers, memory cards, guitars and other hardware. When the ps3 came out I was like "WTF do I do with my 4 ps2 controllers and memory cards? ITS THE SAME CONTROLLER!!". I know Sony loves to screw it customers but at least the ports were still the same in the ps1>ps2 era. Not supporting old controllers to me is one of the biggest wastes of our modern age. The wii did it right even though they didn't go as far as they could.
Every x on the feature list of a new console is another reason for people not to buy it and another missed opportunity. It is no longer enough to just give people "like me" a shiny new system promising the same games with more polygons. You have to give people new experiences or they won't see the value in spending more money to play the same game. We need less "call of dutys" and more "Icos".
For me BC affects all my purchases. BC only came relevant in the age of CDs and DVD. Its one of the reason I buy SD cards and USB devices. I will NEVER buy a Vita. I am usually one generation behind in video games because the old games are cheap and I know right away which games are worth playing and I can just buy them all at one time and play them through at my own pace.
Now as the 360 is coming to the end of its life cycle "die dam it!", I will pick it up soon but if the 720 had good BC I would pick that up instead since it would allow me to play the games I missed and also play anything new and fantastic that comes out. So if the 720 costs $400 at launch and a 360 costs $200 then I would spend the extra money just to have my cake and eat it too.
Now I am playing the the ps2 backlog, games are easy to get and are good quality. I'll never buy a ps3 because the entire catalogue of the ps3 pales in comparison to ps2/ps1 there is simply no reason to buy the console TODAY when the xbox360 is just as good, the ps2 is cheaper and has a better library of hundreds of hours of playtime. This is the problem consoles without BC will face. Why would somebody spend more money to get LESS content? Why would somebody give up disk media for cloud media that expires? Why would someone in the age of iphones and ipods give up all their old software when the controllers are all the same?
To me it seems;
PS2 had BC = PS1 instant death. PS2 sells millions.
PS3 no BC = PS2 still outselling ps3. PS3 slow burn.
Wii BC = gamecube instant death. Wii Sells millions.
360 BC = old xbox regulated to hardcore players only
WiiU has BC = unknown
A key feature of BC is also the controllers, memory cards, guitars and other hardware. When the ps3 came out I was like "WTF do I do with my 4 ps2 controllers and memory cards? ITS THE SAME CONTROLLER!!". I know Sony loves to screw it customers but at least the ports were still the same in the ps1>ps2 era. Not supporting old controllers to me is one of the biggest wastes of our modern age. The wii did it right even though they didn't go as far as they could.
Every x on the feature list of a new console is another reason for people not to buy it and another missed opportunity. It is no longer enough to just give people "like me" a shiny new system promising the same games with more polygons. You have to give people new experiences or they won't see the value in spending more money to play the same game. We need less "call of dutys" and more "Icos".
Because it's better quality content. id the PS3 games were identical ot PS2 games, you'd have a point. But there's lots PS3 is doing that PS2 can't that results in better games. GT5 is better than GT4. FIFA 2012 on PS3 is better than FIFA 2012 on PS2. Killzone is better on PS3 than PS2. For those who want better experiences, they buy the later hardware. For those who don't feel the new experience is any better than the old, or not worth the asking price, then they can stay with the old, either keeping their old console or buying a second hand one cheap etc.
480p games run with 4xMSAA and are then upscaled. Depending on the game, you may run into bugs here and there. I haven't used it much beyond Conker, DOAU, MechAssault 2, Unreal Championship 2, which were ok. Can't remember how Kingdom Under Fire: Crusaders/Heroes performed. The only games that were particularly buggy were Halo 1 & 2, but that's kind of moot unless you were looking for co-op.
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