*spin-off* God of War III Demo Impressions

[MazingerDUDE]

NG and DMC hardly fit the typical hack and slash mold; they're much deeper. As is Bayonetta though I'm turned off by a lot of stuff in that game.

Trust me though, DMC1 and 3 (even 4 at core) are deeper than NG. NG just presents its meat better in the form of long move lists.

But did you actually find Bayonetta more impressive visually than GOWIII or did I miss something there? I'd give the frame rate advantage right now, but GOWIII's build is actually quite old (about a year prior to the game's release).

Well, a length of combo list doesn't equal to quality of its combat system. Even Heavenly Sword provides more combo variety than NG, but it's got zero depth in combat. (Don't get me wrong, I probably am the biggest HS fan in the world) That applies especially to DMC where it's more of combo for show, not for actual combat tactic. There's just nothing like NG2 in terms of combat depth. I'd go as far as to say if NG were Street Fighter 2, other hack n slash games are on the level of Final Fight when it comes to combat. (No NG2 is not the best game in the world, outside the combat ,it's pretty much one of the worst. But combat alone makes me keep coming back for more. I still play Ninja Gaiden Sigma time to time, where I'd turn on GOW to watch its cut scenes. I played NG2 & Sigma2 demo like 200 times before its release, where I'm done with GOW3 after couple tries.

BTW, I didn't mean that Bayonetta's got better overall graphics than GOW3. It's just the combat part that gives you illusion that you're doing something cool by just hitting few bottons with all the crazy effects flying around screen. I'd say Bayonetta is visually impressive in its own right, and is in entirely different league than GOW in graphics department.

 

[djskribbles]

There is simply no action game that has a combat system deeper than DMC3 and I've played them all (except Bayonetta). You have 2 (or even 3) swords/weapons as well as two guns, all in which you can switch on the fly and each has their own moves set and can be leveled up. There are also several swords and guns to choose from but you can only carry two of each at a time. In DMC3SE where you can play as Dante's brother Vergil, he carries all his weapons with him. Each move can be individually combo'd with another move, even from a different weapon/gun so you can create your own combos. You can even switch back and forth between weapons, so the combo variety is nearly endless. Furthermore, there are multiple styles that allow for even more variations of combos, and even the styles can be leveled up. It's a much different combat system than your typical hack n slash game and it takes a very long time to master. DMC3's combat system is quite different from DMC1 and 2 so you can't really mention DMC as a whole. Even DMC4 was a step back in terms of combat depth. I can't even explain all the details to the combat system it's so deep. DMC3:SE is easily my favorite action game and is even in my top 3 games of all time.

 

[SG79]

I'm no stranger to NG or DMC (and spent over 300 hours with each game aside from DMC2). DMC1 is actually my favorite action game of all time, but I do prefer NGB over DMC3 (and think that DMC1 is better than DMC3). They're not fighting games, so even with the combo variety and freedom of DMC3, the game's enemies and design choices were inferior to the original. So many repetitive designs and odd ones (chess sets..), and most of which were punching bags that simply got higher HP and increased damage on higher difficulties.

In comparison, DMC1 had a much better flow and enemy encounters were great as were the bosses. It's a true classic; love the soundtrack too.

Tecmo's Team Ninja are one trick ponies. As much as I liked NGII's combat system, the game overall was far worse than the original with its weird design choices, cheap bosses, and technical issues. Some of which couldn't be fixed in Sigma 2 (the boss fights aside from the new ones still... Genshin was redone well though). As sadistic as NGB got in higher difficulties, the game felt fair and genuinely challenging, but NGII just felt cheap at times.

Then you have GOW. Combat may not be deep, but I'll be damned not to impressed by how smooth the game flows from start to finish. There wasn't a dull moment in GOWII with puzzles to boot... puzzles, something even so-called horror games lack nowadays. It's the equivalent of a blockbuster movie. It may not hold your interest for months to come, but the single playthrough leaves an everlasting impression so I look forward to GOWIII.

On a side note, I WAS looking forward to Bayonetta and frankly, I was acting like a bit of a fanboy of Kamiya (RE2 is my favorite game of all time). After one superb game after another, I thought I'll fall in love with it but no dice. I found the art direction and the combat to be lackluster, and the whole thing felt awkward to me. The hit effects really distract you at times too and I never thought I'd dislike a protagonist to a point where it's a turnoff (yeah yeah, open for jokes here )

Dino Crisis had a female protagonist with some sex appeal but Regina never looked like a prostitute. Hell, even Team Ninja's T&A looked cartoony but Bayonetta took things further. Of course, if I liked the combat, I wouldn't care but it's sooo underwhelming.

 

[djskribbles]

I'm no stranger to NG or DMC (and spent over 300 hours with each game aside from DMC2). DMC1 is actually my favorite action game of all time, but I do prefer NGB over DMC3 (and think that DMC1 is better than DMC3). They're not fighting games, so even with the combo variety and freedom of DMC3, the game's enemies and design choices were inferior to the original. So many repetitive designs and odd ones (chess sets..), and most of which were punching bags that simply got higher HP and increased damage on higher difficulties.

I have to agree about the enemies etc., but I enjoyed the story in DMC3 more, and I found the combat/gameplay more enjoyable. I could play that game for hours just pulling off new combos and trying new ones -- it was just so satisfying with the style meter and all. Watching videos on youtube also gave me ideas of other combos to try out. I literally put over 2-300 hours in that game.

Anyway, I think that's enough DMC/NG talk.

 

[Iron Tiger]

The normal mapping looks higher res in this MazingerDude capture than in this TTP one.

I don't see why there'd be a lower LOD normal map swapped in when the camera is closer. Even with the DoF in effect, a swap like that would be pretty obvious with the level of blur that's being applied at that point. Are these screens from different builds?

 

[MazingerDUDE]

The normal mapping looks higher res in this MazingerDude capture than in this TTP one.

I don't see why there'd be a lower LOD normal map swapped in when the camera is closer. Even with the DoF in effect, a swap like that would be pretty obvious with the level of blur that's being applied at that point. Are these screens from different builds?

Nope, it's the same E3 demo build. It's just the common texture streaming issue. In fact, there seems to be some kind of bug as there're parts where texture stream is way too delayed. I'm talking about textures on Titan. If you look at my captures, Titan should display much higher res texture than what you'd normally see in game. You'd have to literally wait for 5 min after beating that Chimera boss to have this higher quality texture to pop up.


http://www.mazingerdude.com/TitanHighResTexture.jpg

 

[2real4tv]

The normal mapping looks higher res in this MazingerDude capture than in this TTP one.

I don't see why there'd be a lower LOD normal map swapped in when the camera is closer. Even with the DoF in effect, a swap like that would be pretty obvious with the level of blur that's being applied at that point. Are these screens from different builds?

They just didn't load...its a bug.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

Graphics

Nope, it's the same E3 demo build. It's just the common texture streaming issue. In fact, there seems to be some kind of bug as there're parts where texture stream is way too delayed. I'm talking about textures on Titan. If you look at my captures, Titan should display much higher res texture than what you'd normally see in game. You'd have to literally wait for 5 min after beating that Chimera boss to have this higher quality texture to pop up.


http://www.mazingerdude.com/TitanHighResTexture.jpg

Thank you for your analysis. I feel the graphics look great but I do not like the violence like head ripping and purposely causing pain. It is very sad for me to see because in many places of our world this kind of violence is real, not just video games.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

Thank you for your analysis. I feel the graphics look great but I do not like the violence like head ripping and purposely causing pain. It is very sad for me to see because in many places of our world this kind of violence is real, not just video games.

I'm not exactly a fan of violence myself either, but there're things far more disturbing than some pixelated blood and gore in video game. I'd personally pick the aircraft level in COD4 (where you'd shoot from miles high with night vision at amazing accuracy) to be the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my gaming life that left me with bad taste for days to come. And this is kind of violence that is more real than some bold dude with attitude ripping a god's head off.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

Alright, let's get back to GOW3.

What's most amazing about GOW3 is its almost bull shot like IQ. Definitely miles ahead of I've seen in console gaming.

I took few shots for comparison shake.


http://www.mazingerdude.com/KratossvsBatmanZOOM.jpg


* These shots are captured at same scale with 200% zoom


This one's Batman AA. The Batman features some of the most highly detailed characters in console gaming, but at moderate distance, it looks and is just like any other in game graphics filled with artifacts like aliasing and blurred texture.



http://www.mazingerdude.com/KratossvsNateZOOM.jpg


Now this is Uncharted 2, supposedly the highest polygon count in its character modeling with excellent texture details. Well Nate looks a lot better than Batman with help of AA, but it looks nothing extraordinary. It looks like an in game shot and it is an in game shot.



http://www.mazingerdude.com/Kratoss2.jpg


Even at further away, Kratoss retains all its bull shot like quality.




http://www.mazingerdude.com/KratossFAR.jpg


Now Kratoss is at some extreme distance, and he still looks bull shot.


Let's see some other examples, again from Batman AA


http://www.mazingerdude.com/BatmanFAR01.jpg

http://www.mazingerdude.com/BatmanFAR02.jpg


I'm impressed :smile:

 

[betan]

While I do think AA is great in Gow3 (in fact all your shots look bs-like for both AA and lighting, great work and thanks), Batman's AA is only in name, so I'm not sure why we are comparing GoW3 to that particular game.

 

[nightshade]

I am only disappointed by the framerate.
I remember I have said before that 40 FPS feels much better than 30 ....but tbh 40 FPS feels awkward...it doesnt has the smoothness of 60 FPS neither does it gives u the movie like effect of 30FPS.Its the inbetween with advantages of neither & the frequent dips to 20s make it feel even worse.

I just hope they found a solution to this.


oh btw speaking of DMC3/4 I'd like to mention that there is more to combat than just chaining wepons...jump canceling plays a MAJOR part in advanced DMC fighting...there is simply no hack & slash game like it.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

While I do think AA is great in Gow3 (in fact all your shots look bs-like for both AA and lighting, great work and thanks), Batman's AA is only in name, so I'm not sure why we are comparing GoW3 to that particular game.

Actually I'm just comparing IQ in general. In fact, there's no AA in PS3 Batman that I took shots off at above post. I picked Batman because it's pretty much only game I could think of that has highly detailed in game character model as GOW3. So does Uncharted 2.

 

[djskribbles]

@nightshade, agreed. Like I said, the combat system is just so deep that I had a hard time explaining it all. :smile:

Back to GoW3. That's incredible how detailed Kratos is, even zoomed in 200%. It really does look bullshotty (?).

Btw, thanks for the video on DF MazingerDUDE. However, I have a hard time focusing on the framerate counter as I keep looking at the gameplay. I haven't seen an HD gameplay video of the demo until now.

 

[Billy Idol]

Can you intercept a combo in GOW3?
When you compare it to HS, where you always have full gameplay control: you can always interupt your combo and start another one or roll away, and stuff like this.
In GOW1 and GOW2 you have to wait until your combo (animations) end, then you can input new action. Is this the same in GOW3?

 

[MazingerDUDE]

@nightshade, agreed. Like I said, the combat system is just so deep that I had a hard time explaining it all. :smile:

Back to GoW3. That's incredible how detailed Kratos is, even zoomed in 200%. It really does look bullshotty (?).

Btw, thanks for the video on DF MazingerDUDE. However, I have a hard time focusing on the framerate counter as I keep looking at the gameplay. I haven't seen an HD gameplay video of the demo until now.

Actually, I didn't take part in that piece

 

[nightshade]

yea the same...u cannot intercept

 

[djskribbles]

Actually, I didn't take part in that piece

Sorry... I thought I saw a post by you saying you were gonna post a video on DF.

 

[Billy Idol]

yea the same...u cannot intercept

thanks!

 

[deepbrown]

OT are you sure? In the last screen not seems nothing of special.

I'm sure =)