Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[tongue_of_colicab]

The highest rating is for porn, not sex. Plenty of movies show sex and nudity, just not penetration. R18 is for closeups of midgets getting double anal from a bunch of giant black dudes. Basically the stuff that isn't going to get shown on a non erotic channel or normal cinema.

If violent movies would frequently consist of 1+ hours of killing people in the most gruesome ways I'm sure there would have been a separate rating for that by now as well. But most violence in movies is fairly weak and/or quite short.

Not that I think sex should be rated above violence but its not that strange the double anal midget is rated R18 while a few splattered brains and blown off limbs are rated 18+. I mean, the later you can watch with the whole family, even if some aren't 18. But the former I'd say you want to keep for yourself (most people would anyway).

 

[Arwin]

No, in the UK just regular penetration is already R18.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Yes that is what I'm saying. No "normal" movie shows penetration despite showing people having sex or nudity. Only porn is R18. So its not that sex is rated higher than violence, only porn is.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Getting very RSCPA. Movie ratings and their coverage of sex and violence isn't really appropriate here. The topic is VR and, presently, whether it'll be impacted by classification. I consider Turkey's question answered with a 'likely not' regards a rating that limits VR availablity for being rated AO in US.

 

[London Geezer]

R18 is for closeups of midgets getting double anal from a bunch of giant black dudes.

Your browsing history must be quite interesting, in a sick and twisted way.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I hear he has dwarfism

 

[MrFox]

Double what from who?

Is this the VR thread, what just happened?

 

[DieH@rd]

Futuridium VR [sequel of Futuridium, not port] dev dropped on GAF to say they are going with the 90fps+reprojection rendering for PSVR [with 120fps rendering as a possibility if they optimize game more]. These screens are from PC version:
https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/mixedbagimg/1.png
https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/mixedbagimg/Cattura3.PNG
https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/mixedbagimg/FutuVR_studio_mauro.png

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How does 90 Hz with reprojection work? Irregular frame pacing?

 

[MrFox]

That would be 90hz reprojected to 90hz, in the sony slides.... This is where reprojection significantly helps latency, even if it doesn't change the frame rate. It reduces input-to-photons by about 10ms.

My assumption remains that they have a configurable v-blanking interval in the oled driver, so they can sync to either 90hz or 120hz, while using the same fast pixel clock.

 

[Arwin]

To get it to 120, you predict every fourth frame with reprojection? If that is 90hz isn't natively supported already. Lots of options I think.

Edit: beaten

 

[DieH@rd]

That would be 90hz reprojected to 90hz, in the sony slides.... This is where reprojection significantly helps latency, even if it doesn't change the frame rate. It reduces input-to-photons by about 10ms.

Yup, game is rendered at 90fps, but each frame is not sent until another user tracking data is sampled and that frame is reprojected to the correct state.

To get it to 120, you predict every fourth frame with reprojection? If that is 90hz isn't natively supported already. Lots of options I think.

Edit: beaten

PSVR supports native 120hz and native 90hz scannout rate. However Sony is recommending that every game use reprojection.

60 render>reprojection to create additional frames>120 scanout
90 render>reprojection>90 scanout
120 render>reprojection > 120 scanout

 

[pjbliverpool]

Futuridium VR [sequel of Futuridium, not port] dev dropped on GAF to say they are going with the 90fps+reprojection rendering for PSVR [with 120fps rendering as a possibility if they optimize game more]. These screens are from PC version:
https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/mixedbagimg/1.png
https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/mixedbagimg/Cattura3.PNG
https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/mixedbagimg/FutuVR_studio_mauro.png

If the PS4 can't render that at 120fps there's something seriously wrong.

 

[DieH@rd]

First PSVR code they made was running at 120fps

Now it looks like they want to add more visual polish to the game. We will have to wait a bit more to see what they end up with.

 

[MrFox]

If the PS4 can't render that at 120fps there's something seriously wrong.

The screenshots are from the PC version, which will be stuck at 90fps anyway.

It's not a bad idea to add more AA, or more particles, better physics, more detailed traced shadows, etc... instead of going for 120fps on PS4. It depends if the game is high speed enough to need 120fps, which is doubtful since it's a cross platform game. Gameplay velocity limits will be determined by the limitations of 90hz PC headsets to avoid nausea.

 

[pjbliverpool]

The screenshots are from the PC version, which will be stuck at 90fps anyway.

I know, so potentially the PS4 version will look even worse making the case for 120fps being achievable even stronger.

It's not a bad idea to add more AA, or more particles, better physics, more detailed traced shadows, etc... instead of going for 120fps on PS4. It depends if the game is high speed enough to need 120fps, which is doubtful since it's a cross platform game.

Yes I agree. If the core graphics of the PC version are being determined by the limitations of sub 2TF consoles then it should at least be possible to render the game at a much higher internal resolution and downsample, which when combined with a higher native resolution should give a significant image quality boost.

Gameplay velocity limits will be determined by the limitations of 90hz PC headsets to avoid nausea.

Are you making the claim that 90fps places a limit on gameplay possibilities? Because I have a hard time believing that to be the case and would need to see some evidence of that claim before accepting it.

 

[MrFox]

Input-to-photons latency is limiting the allowed in-game velocity, regardless of pixel shaders quality. Some contemplative experiences are fine on smartphones at 60/75, most games require 90 or 60->120, higher velocities would take advantage of 120 reprojected to 120, and sony said it would be required for "twitchy games and some non-gaming applications" in the unity presentation.

From another presentation, in a VR racing game, the car speed caused nausea beyond a certain velocity, and it was directly linked to the input-to-photon latency. At cruising speed all was fine.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Input-to-photons latency is limiting the allowed in-game velocity, regardless of pixel shaders quality. Some contemplative experiences are fine on smartphones at 60/75, most games require 90 or 60->120, higher velocities would take advantage of 120 reprojected to 120, and sony said it would be required for "twitchy games and some non-gaming applications" in the unity presentation.

From another presentation, in a VR racing game, the car speed caused nausea beyond a certain velocity, and it was directly linked to the input-to-photon latency. At cruising speed all was fine.

Links? I would like solid evidence, from a non-biased source (vague statements from Sony extolling the virtues of 120fps headsets certainly don't qualify) that certain game play scenarios are impossible in VR at "only" 90fps.

 

[MrFox]

MrFox is not available right now. However, the interim passive-agressive personality of MrFox is here to help you.

If you disagree with sony's unity presentation, feel free to provide the source of your disagreement. Otherwise we can go back to the previous topic of midgets suffering through double anal penetration by a pair of black cocks.

 

[hughJ]

Motion to photon latency is largely a non-issue (in terms of head tracking nausea) now regardless of whether your frame rate is 60, 75, 90, or 120 because the images you're viewing are based on the predicted pose of the time when you see them, not when the scene was initially drawn or eventually reprojected. What higher rendered frame rates buy you is smoother perception of motion of animated elements within the scene that naturally aren't accounted for by reprojection. If a lot of the scene you're viewing happens to be animated elements (say, a very fast moving, close proximity race track), then I could maybe see that being a problem with lower rendered fps, but that's really nothing new - anyone that's had a chance to view fast games on 120/144 monitors will testify to how much better it appears compared to the traditional 60Hz. Once you get up above 60fps/60Hz every successive gradation of resolution, rendering rate and refresh rate is going to offer a incremental improvement in experience, that's a given, but the headsets are all going to be roughly comparable in capability though so I don't see a lot of fuel here for thoughtful debate.

That being said, it will be interesting to see if PSVR ends up making a legitimate case for 120Hz such that the next batch of PC headsets opt to chase the refresh rates further upward, or will they rather settle on 90Hz (or perhaps some other more exotic 90p/180i partial update) in order to keep the display output manageable while we try to scale up to 4K and beyond. I distinctly remember telling myself when I first used the 1280x800/60Hz DK1 that if I had the choice between doubling the resolution or doubling the refresh rate, I would rather double the refresh rate. Of course that was also during a time without any prediction, reprojection, early CPU draw queuing, etc where your motion to photon latency was firmly locked to the full pipeline and scan-out and you were looking at best case real world latencies in the 40-50ms range. With pipeline latency effectively gone now and given a similar choice I could definitely see an argument for sticking with 90Hz and focusing instead on resolution. Not to mention the fact that as your window for rendering shrinks it becomes increasingly difficult for the PC to reliably pump out frames in a highly deterministic manner, something I would expect to be much more dialed in on the PS4 and future consoles.