Sony stole my idea!

[rabidrabbit]

15th Dec 2005
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=651636&postcount=25

The controller? Is that why Kutaragi has not yet let anyone else even hold his joystick? What secrets could it possibly have?
My prediction: The DualShock3 and EyeToy2 work together, the controller has some leds or even just some "glow in the dark" markers in front (the side facing your screen), possibly 4 pieces in a diamond formation, that the EyeToy2 can easily "read" even in dark, so as well as using the traditional buttons, you could control by tilting and moving the whole controller around. The leds would just add precision to the "motion capture" and the controller would have exactly the same functionality as the Revolution controller, maybe even more, and it would not really add to the cost other than the new Eye Toy2.
Of course the EyeToy2 would work without the controller too, but working in tandem with the DS3 would open up more control options in traditional games too, not just controlling wawing your hands etc.

15th Dec 2006
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061215-8434.html

The controller uses four LEDs to capture this motion, but in a twist from Nintendo's sensor bar configuration, the LEDs are mounted on the controller itself. A camera mounted next to the player's television set takes many pictures of the four LEDs every second, and this data is used to calculate the position and velocity of the controller.

Should I sue them, or just settle for a free PS3 for compensation.

 

[dodo3]

So what if it is bright in the room you're in? Wouldn't that make it difficult for the camera to see the LEDs?

 

[rabidrabbit]

No, if it's programmed to follow known colour leds that are in a known formation.
The leds are quite bright even in daylight.

 

[Bad_Boy]

That certainly is an interesting way of using the 4 leds already on the controller for Eyetoy input. They are facing the TV pretty much most of the time. I wonder if they thought of that when putting the leds on the controller, or after the controller was made. or maybe even after rabidrabbit thought of it first?

 

[rabidrabbit]

It obviously is the last one.
Also, it proves the SIXAXIS was not a last minute addition in response to Wiimote, had they not begun designing the SIXAXIS already well before a year ago, they'd used MY idea instead.

 

[cam]

This may be a stupid question, but doesnt the gyro in the DualShock 3 already know the position the controller is in?

 

[Naboomagnoli]

What if you're player 1-4? There's only 1 LED on..

That probably wouldn't be an issue if Eyetoy-based games don't have more than 2 players or so since you could just set the pad as player 5 or 6 to get two lights on. Also I guess you'd only need a light for positional awareness, and the angle of the pad can be determined via the in-built sensors. If the Eyetoy is also 3D aware in and of itself then perhaps distance wouldn't need to be determined via two lights? Just thinking aloud.

Alternatively... did the circuitboard for the Sixaxis show any alternative LEDs for the player lights, like a set of red/green lights?

 

[Bad_Boy]

It obviously is the last one.

Also, it proves the SIXAXIS was not a last minute addition in response to Wiimote, had they not begun designing the SIXAXIS already well before a year ago, they'd used MY idea instead.

Depends if they thought about the LED/Eyetoy interface before the controller was made or after. But the way everything is setup It definately sounds like they thought of this before the controller was made. I certainly never thought of using the leds as an interface myself. Good minds you guys have.

This may be a stupid question, but doesnt the gyro in the DualShock 3 already know the position the controller is in?

It's kinda weird. I dont think it knows the space in the room the controller is in due to not having two inputs like the nunchuck and the wiimote, but it definately knows the position. When I was playing motorstorm with motion on, holding the controller normally I could rotate the controller "sea-saw" like (sorry, best way I know how to put it lol). But if I rotate the controller up and use it like a steering wheel (which is much easier to drive btw), I still move it in the same motion because it knows the position it's in.

Alternatively... did the circuitboard for the Sixaxis show any alternative LEDs for the player lights, like a set of red/green lights?

Not that I remember, but I always thought it was interesting that there have been reports of the PS button on the controller lighting up RED before the ps3 was shipped, and thats not counting the same red light on the controller in the Playstation advertisements. I think users had pictures of the red light during Gamers Day or some other Sony conference. But when the PS3 was shipped, nobody has seen the red light in the controller.

I recall a japanese site disecting the controller piece by piece but I forget if the led was on the controller back then.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This may be a stupid question, but doesnt the gyro in the DualShock 3 already know the position the controller is in?

It knows the orientation. It doesn't know the exact position relative to the screen, unlike Wiimote.

rabidrabbit - You haven't a leg to stand on. Public disclosure of an invention prior to patenting nullifies all rights to IP protection. The best you can manage is to be cited as prior art against Sony. You've nullified Sony's patent! (Incidentally, you ought to contact the patent office and alert them to this so they don't grant the patent. Though we all know they won't pay a blind bit of attention as that'd lose them lots of patenting fees.)

In fact, I'd be wary of ninja's if I were you!

 

[Bad_Boy]

Check this out. Looking up those old controller pictures...

Red light in the PS3 controller before the system was released...

PS3 advertisement currently on Circuit City's page

Now anybody with a PS3 probably can tell you they have never seen the PS3 controller light up red where the PS button is (atleast I hope so or mine is broken ).

Now look at this image from the ps3 controller being taken apart.

right between the analog sicks is where the PS button is. Notice the place marked out for a LED, but no LED there.

Possible controller revision? Last minute controller change? Only Sony knows

 

[gokickrocks]

try soldering the LED in...but it may have been removed because it would have effected the SIXAXIS...i kid i kid

 

[_phil_]

This may be a stupid question, but doesnt the gyro in the DualShock 3 already know the position the controller is in?

No ,these are accelerometers.It's only relative movement based.
BTW ,that patent is only one possibility ,a lot of people had the idea to combine Eyetoy with 6x6 in a way or another for some time, some developpers i know are already designing 6x6 accessories to work with eyetoy2.

 

[Naboomagnoli]

To switch the red light on the PS3 would have needed to allocate another 64MB of RAM to the OS.


Interesting that they took the red light out.. the battery cost associated would surely be negligible, and the cost of one more LED couldn't have been in any way significant.. which could loosely imply that it might have interfered with the Eye-toy readings?


edit: phil, don't suppose any of these peripherals are far enough advanced for you to elaborate further?

 

[Bad_Boy]

some developpers i know are already designing 6x6 accessories to work with eyetoy2.

Any chance you can share some details?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No ,these are accelerometers.It's only relative movement based.
BTW ,that patent is only one possibility ,a lot of people had the idea to combine Eyetoy with 6x6 in a way or another for some time, some developpers i know are already designing 6x6 accessories to work with eyetoy2.

What are '6x6' accessories?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Interesting that they took the red light out.. the battery cost associated would surely be negligible, and the cost of one more LED couldn't have been in any way significant.. which could loosely imply that it might have interfered with the Eye-toy readings?

Why keep it in? What does a red LED in a controller get you that's worth any expense at all? The only thing I can think of is an indicator of on/off, and don't the controller ID LEDs show that?

 

[Bad_Boy]

What are '6x6' accessories?

I think he means "sixaxis". Say 6-x-6, 10 times fast.

 

[Naboomagnoli]

Why keep it in? What does a red LED in a controller get you that's worth any expense at all? The only thing I can think of is an indicator of on/off, and don't the controller ID LEDs show that?

I know what you mean and agree to an extent; but just sticking with what's functional is not really in keeping with the whole policy of PS3 being a luxurious piece of hardware. If anything I would have said that the red light on a blue-light theme doesn't make sense. A blue or white LED there would have looked nicer.

edit: 6xS sounds closer

 

[lshian]

15th Dec 2005
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=651636&postcount=25


15th Dec 2006
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061215-8434.html

Should I sue them, or just settle for a free PS3 for compensation.

I been sueing Sony over the dual anolog stick look like my nipples for more than ten years sux!!! Sue SONY!!!!

 

[_phil_]

no ,obviously ,i won't tell more,but just to say that the idea to combine both device jumps easyly into the head

To switch the red light on the PS3 would have needed to allocate another 64MB of RAM to the OS.

damn, we'd rather Call the Police (Roxannne ! )