Sony PlayStation 5 Pro

[ErneX]

He said "The PS5 pro delivers locked 60 fps at the same resolution and quality as the base PS5's fidelity mode in TLOU 2. Arguably better." That is just not true. One may subjectively prefer the look of PSSR but it has objective pros and cons when compared to fidelity mode. The quality is not the same. 1440p with reconstruction is not the same resolution as a native 4K.

Looking at the video and listening what Oliver says seems it's very close to the native 4K@30 mode on the base model but at 60fps. It even seems to resolve more details.

Which is exactly what the other AI upscalers manifest, isn't it?

I'm pretty impressed considering this is the 1st iteration of PSSR.

 

[davis.anthony]

Its 4K 60 fps on the PS5 pro I dont get your point. Performance mode on the base machine is 1440p 60 fps!! Fidelity mode is 4k 30 fps or did I get something wrong?

You got your wording wrong.

It's not the same resolution.

Pro is still running at 1440p and using PSSR.

 

[Karamazov]

does PSSR really resolves more details on textures or is it just an "illusion" from sharpening that gives that impression ?

 

[iroboto]

Looking at the video and listening what Oliver says seems it's very close to the native 4K@30 mode on the base model but at 60fps. It even seems to resolve more details.

Which is exactly what the other AI upscalers manifest, isn't it?

I'm pretty impressed considering this is the 1st iteration of PSSR.

In my experience and analysis of upscaling solutions, no upscaler has ever resolved detail better than native.

 

[trinibwoy]

In my experience and analysis of upscaling solutions, no upscaler has ever resolved detail better than native.

That may be true for textures but certainly not for fine geometry. There is ample evidence that upscalers do a better job of resolving thin tree branches, wires etc than native.

 

[iroboto]

That may be true for textures but certainly not for fine geometry. There is ample evidence that upscalers do a better job of resolving thin tree branches, wires etc than native.

Isn’t that more to do with the AA portion than it is to do with upscaling?

 

[Remij]

That's the point of PSSR. rntonga is saying PS5 Pro delivers on better PS5 gaming - '4K quality modes at higher framerates' - because PSSR enables it. He did not say PS5 Pro is rendering native 4K60 and there's no need for it to.

Then it is substantially less impressive than what he wants us to believe. We're all well aware that reconstruction to 4K from 1440p will improve the image quality over a native 1440p image.

 

[trinibwoy]

Isn’t that more to do with the AA portion than it is to do with upscaling?

Yea but is there a temporal upscaler that doesn’t also do AA? Don’t think you can separate the two.

 

[Globalisateur]

Isn’t that more to do with the AA portion than it is to do with upscaling?

(T)AA doesn't improve vegetation details. Nor does sharpening (which DLSS also uses) could improve textures details at this point without obvious and ugly sharpening artefacts. This is just how AI upscaling works and it was working like this with DLSS for years. People can all spin about specs, clocks, whatever. Proof is in the pudding. PSSR is just about as good as DLSS and 1440p PSSRed to 4K resolves more details than native 4K, including geometry. And we see about the same impovements we were seeing with FF7 rebirth.

 

[ErneX]

Then it is substantially less impressive than what he wants us to believe. We're all well aware that reconstruction to 4K from 1440p will improve the image quality over a native 1440p image.

But it kind of is when it’s close to the same game running at native 4K, in the video there are side by sides of 3 different modes, the 2 current modes: 1440p60, 20160p30 and Pro. On the Pro the video shows more detail being resolved than even the native 4K mode, and this is running at double the framerate too.

 

[Remij]

But it kind of is when it’s close to the same game running at native 4K, in the video there are side by sides of 3 different modes, the 2 current modes: 1440p60, 20160p30 and Pro. On the Pro the video shows more detail being resolved than even the native 4K mode, and this is running at double the framerate too.

Its not though. We've had 1440p recontruction to 4K which has been able to look better than native 4K for a long time now. They also oversharpen the image to bring out detail.

What WOULD be impressive is the game rendering at native 4K with PSSR on top of that improving things further.. while maintaining 60fps. Or finding out the input resolution was only 1080p and there was an 120hz unlocked mode.

 

[davis.anthony]

does PSSR really resolves more details on textures or is it just an "illusion" from sharpening that gives that impression ?

It likely does as the TAA in TLOU is quite poor by TAA standards.

 

[davis.anthony]

(T)AA doesn't improve vegetation details.

Good old fashioned MSAA+TrSAA destroys any form of TAA or upscaling in vegetation detail.

It's just a shame we can't use it with modern games.

Proof is in the pudding. PSSR is just about as good as DLSS

DF have already shown that's not the case, it's closer to XeSS than DLSS.

1440p PSSRed to 4K resolves more details than native 4K, including geometry.

No it doesn't, it resolves more detail than 4k with a piss poor TAA solution.

TAA blurs everything, it always has, and some TAA blurs more than others, like the TAA in ND games.

If you want to see what 4k actually looks like without shit TAA, go and load up one of the Horizon games on PC and turn AA completely off in the options, the game will have aliasing but will be sharper than you've ever seen the game looking before.

And we see about the same improvements we were seeing with FF7 rebirth.

Another game with dog shit image quality as standard making PSSR look better than it is.

 

[ErneX]

It’s not though. We've had 1440p recontruction to 4K which has been able to look better than native 4K for a long time now.

On consoles? My comments are based on what I see on the DF video though.

 

[trinibwoy]

Good old fashioned MSAA+TrSAA destroys any form of TAA or upscaling in vegetation detail.

It's just a shame we can't use it with modern games.

What’s TrSAA?

 

[Charlietus]

This recent notion that naughty dog games have bad TAA is strange.

I played TLOU2 on PS4 pro at launch and the image quality on a 55" 4k tv was really good.

I don't think that sharpness is always what's best for visuals. Movies are never the sharpest that they can be, for good reason. There is a certain threshold where the sharpness is "enough".

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What WOULD be impressive is the game rendering at native 4K with PSSR on top of that improving things further.

What on earth is that supposed to look like?!

We have a rendering resolution, and an output resolution. However, we also have an antialiasing solution. 2160p with zero AA has shimmers and stepping. An AA method is used to eliminate that which, using FXAA, destroys detail. Can PSSR function as just a reconstruction AA method? At which point, yes, you could render 2160p and then PSSR out the aliasing.

But in terms of what we've got, what's on screen is superior to native 4K rendering with a lame AA solution. However, it's not rasterising as many pixels as the PS5, if that's what you are wanting to look at versus what's appearing on screen. PS5 Pro is matching and beating PS5 Fidelity mode in terms on what's being output, but not in terms of what pixels are being rasterised.

 

[davis.anthony]

What’s TrSAA?

Transparency super sampling.

 

[davis.anthony]

This recent notion that naughty dog games have bad TAA is strange.

Play them on PC where there are multiple AA options and you'll see how bad it is.

 

[Charlietus]

Play them on PC where there are multiple AA options and you'll see how bad it is.

I mean, haven't heard anyone, be it users or tech outlets, lamenting poor image quality when the game came out.

And after forspoken, Jedi Survivor pre patch and ff7 rebirth, I know pretty well what bad image quality looks like.

TLOU 2 has this really uniform image quality, there aren't any scenes where you think you'd like more sharpness or where it becomes a shimmering mess. It's really optimized for the content it displays.